The Avalanche Hour Podcast

Interview Highlights: 
- Coming home each day is always the goal, and debriefing seems to be a helpful tool in adding expertise to our experience. 
- Debriefing can look many different ways. It can happen in real time during an outing, known as a rolling debrief, or it can happen at the end of  the day, and even at a later time. 
- Ian and Sara posit that our debriefing skills are in need of attention, and that different personal and environmental factors impact how well we perform this critical task.
- While professionals participating in a debrief often have a defined leader, recreational users benefit from peer leadership.

About our guests:
Sara Boilen holds a doctorate in clinical psychology from the University of Denver (2011). Professionally, she works with individuals who have had interactions with the justice system often in the spirit of helping to make sense of behavior and context. She has taken her professional interests and merged it with her recreational interests to contribute to the field of avalanche sciences in her free time. She is specifically interested in human-related problems and solutions. Dr. Boilen has presented at seven Snow and Avalanche Workshops and at ISSW in Norway. She has written articles for The Avalanche Review and was a co-author on the recently proposed conceptual framework for human factors in avalanche terrain. She lives in Northwest Montana and will carry dessert for you to the top of any mountain her skills will take her to.

Ian McCammon, often considered the godfather of human factors in avalanche education, has a unique background with a foot in scientific research and another in backcountry exploration. With formal training in physics, materials science, and engineering, Ian started in R&D before becoming deeply involved in avalanche education in the 1990s. Following the loss of his friend Steve Carruthers in an avalanche, he was driven to study how experienced individuals make fatal decisions despite knowing better. His work has since shaped modern avalanche education and risk management strategies.

Thanks to the sponsors of the show.
Legacy Sponsors:
Darren Johnson Avalanche Education Memorial Fund
AVSS
Drone Amplified

Partner Sponsors:
CIL Avalanche
Safeback
onX Backcountry

Episode Sponsor:
Snowbound Solutions

Music: Ketsa
Artwork: Mike Tea 
Production: Caleb Merrill, Bob Keating

Join us for our fourth installment of Slabs ‘n Sluff with Sara Boilen and guest co-host, Sean Zimmerman-Wall! Sara and Sean review January and take a look at what is coming up for February in the Avalanche Hour Podcast. We also hear an update from Dom. 

Sara Boilen holds a doctorate in clinical psychology from the University of Denver (2011). Professionally, she works with individuals who have had interactions with the justice system often in the spirit of helping to make sense of behavior and context. She has taken her professional interests and merged it with her recreational interests to contribute to the field of avalanche sciences in her free time. She is specifically interested in human-related problems and solutions. Dr. Boilen has presented at seven Snow and Avalanche Workshops and at ISSW in Norway. She has written articles for The Avalanche Review and was a co-author on the recently proposed conceptual framework for human factors in avalanche terrain. She lives in Northwest Montana and will carry dessert for you to the top of any mountain her skills will take her to.

Sean Zimmerman-Wall works to build connections across the avalanche community through ski patrolling, teaching and occasional guiding gigs.  Determined to leave the industry better than he found it, he believes he can grow alongside others and develop strong relationships that last.

Episode Summary:
- Discussing the impact of Traumatic Brain Injuries on our community members
- Review of the last 6-8 weeks of programming, highlighting interviews that captured the hosts imagination or got us thinking
- Digging through the mailbag for some gems
- Recent rabbit holes worth exploring
- What’s on deck for the second half of the season
- onX Backcountry Highlight: Caleb x Andy Sovick

Resources Mentioned in the Conversation:
Fatal Occupational Injuries of Avalanche Workers in North America -Ethan Greene, et. al
Assessing and Communicating Likelihood and Probability of Snow Avalanches Scott Thumlert, et. al.
Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself: How to Lose Your Mind and Create a New One- Dr. Joe Dispenza
Quit: The Power of Knowing When to Walk Away- Annie Duke
TBI: Basics

Thanks to the sponsors of the show.
Legacy Sponsors:
Darren Johnson Avalanche Education Memorial Fund
AVSS
Drone Amplified

Partner Sponsors:
CIL Avalanche
Safeback
onX Backcountry

Music: Ketsa
Artwork: Mike Tea 
Production: Caleb Merrill, Bob Keating

Pascal Haegeli’s career path is anything but conventional. After completing his Master’s degree in Switzerland, he moved to Canada in the mid-1990s – where he found the opportunity of a lifetime. There he built an academic career and became a very influential researcher in avalanche risk management, shaping safety practices across North America and beyond.

Today, Pascal is an Associate Professor and Director of the School of Resource and Environmental Management at Simon Fraser University in Vancouver and leads the SFU Avalanche Research Group (SARP). His team’s work spans everything from avalanche forecasting, snowpack and hazard modelling to operational decision-making practices and risk communication.

This spring, Pascal begins an exciting new chapter: returning to Switzerland as Head of Avalanche Research and Prevention at the SLF in Davos. He brings decades of international experience back to where his journey began - strengthening collaboration across the Atlantic.

Interview Highlights:
- How chance, timing, and hard work shaped Pascal’s avalanche career in Canada
- The mission and intention behind the SFU Avalanche Research Group
- Why avalanche research moves slower than the industry – and why that matters
- Why Pascal is returning to Switzerland and what that means for avalanche research in Canada

Resources Cited in Conversation: 
SFU SARP website
PostDoc Position

Thanks to the sponsors of the show.
Legacy Sponsors:
Darren Johnson Avalanche Education Memorial Fund
AVSS
Drone Amplified

Partner Sponsors:
CIL Avalanche
Safeback
onX Backcountry

Episode Sponsor:
Peak Visor

Music: Ketsa
Artwork: Mike Tea 
Production: Caleb Merrill, Bob Keating

Joe Stock and Luc Mehl have been on many adventures together. Join them for a great conversation about risk management in wild places. In Joe's words: Luc Mehl is one of Alaska’s foremost adventurers, filling the gap between Roman Dial and Dick Griffith. He’s been at the forefront of ski traversing, packrafting, wild ice skating and now wilderness risk management. 
Luc grew up in rural Alaska and has traveled over 10,000 miles of the state by foot, ski, pedal, paddle, and ice skate. Luc's work has earned several national awards, two for The Packraft Handbook, and others for public service in boating safety and leadership in wilderness risk management. Luc's business, Triple Point Training, provides wilderness risk management and rescue training. 
Luc’s Triple Point Training: https://triplepointtraining.com 
Luc’s Podcast and blog: https://thingstolucat.com/ 

Interview highlights
Luc grew up in rural Alaska and it shaped his life ahead. 

Luc shares the story of a few of his big mountain ski trips including road to road ski traverses of Denal and Mount Logan. 

Over the past 20 year Luc’s relationship with risk has evolved from pushing the envelope of what’s possible to finding peace with his place in the mountains. Part of this evolution included life-changing experiences with avalanches that have left him no longer comfortable going into avalanche terrain. He’s now at the cutting edge of wild ice skating and ice rescue. 

Our conversation concludes with his new projects and work in wilderness risk management. 

Thanks to the sponsors of the show.
Legacy Sponsors:
⁠Darren Johnson Avalanche Education Memorial Fund⁠
⁠AVSS⁠
⁠Drone Amplified⁠

Partner Sponsors:
⁠CIL Avalanche⁠
⁠Safeback⁠
⁠onX Backcountry⁠ Use code: avalanchehour for 30% off a year of onX Backcountry Elite or Premium Membership.

Episode Sponsor:
Propagation Labs

Music: ⁠Ketsa⁠
Artwork: ⁠Mike Tea ⁠
Production: Caleb Merrill, ⁠Bob Keating

“Science is What We Do to Keep from Lying to Ourselves” ~ Richard Feynman. 

In this conversation, Bruce Jamieson is back to interview Dr. Karl Birkeland and Joe Stock for a deep dive into snow science. Jamieson brings us with him on a snow science journey alongside two of the industry’s top authors and experts on snow avalanches. Their conversations comment on the importance of the science side of the industry as “understanding how things work allows us to anticipate conditions that are outside of our experience.” 

Interview Highlights:
- Stopping to dig a snow pit or review & interpret observations helps groups engage with the snowpack, fosters curiosity, and encourages collaborative decision-making
- Long-term practitioners often become humble and curious due to encountering surprises and unknowns in avalanche work
- The amount of science needed depends on the individual and their goals; more knowledge can help practitioners and recreationists make better decisions, especially in unfamiliar conditions   
- People benefit from a tiered training framework: core skills in main courses coupled with more science topics through CPD and ISSWs. 
Joe Stock is an IFMGA mountain guide who has distilled decades of skiing, climbing, guiding and teaching avalanche courses into a step-by-step system outlined in The Avalanche Factor - a handbook for recreational skiers and climbers who want to get into backcountry avalanche terrain using their own power.

Karl Birkeland’s The Starting Zone is an e-book specifically targeting avalanche professionals and advanced recreationists. It’s an essential resource for avalanche professionals, blending cutting-edge science with practical avalanche application.

Thanks to the sponsors of the show.
Legacy Sponsors:
Darren Johnson Avalanche Education Memorial Fund
AVSS
Drone Amplified

Partner Sponsors:
CIL Avalanche
Safeback
onX Backcountry

Episode Sponsor:
Open Snow

Music: Ketsa
Artwork: Mike Tea 
Production: Caleb Merrill, Bob Keating