Don't Kill the Messenger with Movie Strategist Kevin Goetz

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Gerry Rich has led marketing at Columbia Pictures, Miramax, MGM/United Artists, Paramount Pictures, and Amazon MGM Studios. He joins host Kevin Goetz to talk about his new memoir, Chasing Hollywood: A Marketing Chief’s Lessons on Breaking Through. Ad Age has named him one of the Top 100 Marketers in America. His campaigns range from independent breakouts like The Crying Game and Leaving Las Vegas to Mean Girls, Iron Man, and the James Bondfranchise. Rich shares hard-won lessons on finding a campaign’s hook, creating urgency, and choosing who to work with.
Selling a Movie in a Four-Week Window (02:44): Rich likens movie marketing to a weekend retail sale, with most media now packed close to opening weekend. He explains why live sports and high-impact digital buys like TikTok still drive reach, and why more of the budget now goes to content creators, the new journalists.
Coming Out, Guy Pearce, and Writing the Book (08:33): After the pandemic and Amazon’s acquisition of MGM, Rich felt it was the right moment to look back on a career spanning more than a thousand films. He explains why he wove his personal story into his book, from meeting lifelong friend Guy Pearce on a film shoot in Fiji to coming out, which he says made him more authentic in his work.
Rebuilding MGM and Reinventing Bond (24:25): Frank Mancuso brought Rich in to help rebuild a bankrupt MGM, where GoldenEye had to revive a franchise audiences saw as “my father’s Bond.” The campaign introduced Pierce Brosnan as a new Bond for a new generation, with help from a Nintendo 64 game.
Rapid Fire: The Crying Game, The Birdcage, Mean Girls, and Chicago (27:57): Goetz runs through some of Rich’s most memorable campaigns. Rich explains how the Miramax team turned The Crying Game’s twist into its hook and persuaded critics not to spoil it. He recalls repositioning Mean Girls around the fear of the first day at a new school, and bringing audiences who didn’t usually see musicals to Chicago.
Mentors and Moguls (42:32): Rich shares mentor Hal Gaba’s rule to avoid people who would never visit you in the hospital. He also reflects on Harvey Weinstein’s complicated legacy, crediting his impact on independent film while condemning the abuse and hostile environment he created.
Going Against the Algorithm (47:26): Rich agrees audience research has a role once a script exists but warns that greenlighting by data models produces sameness. He argues that a shortage of films in certain genres is an opportunity, pointing to originals like Ted, Tropic Thunder, and Sinners.
Host: Kevin Goetz
Guest: Gerry Rich
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, Nick Nunez, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)
For more information about Gerry Rich:
Chasing Hollywood (Amazon): https://a.co/d/0f9b0g42
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gerryrich/
For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

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For the 100th episode of Don't Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz welcomes back his very first guest, Oscar-winning producer Graham King. King's films, including The Departed, The Aviator, Hugo, Argo, Blood Diamond, The Town, and Bohemian Rhapsody, have collected 61 Academy Award nominations, and he won Best Picture for The Departed. His latest, Michael, took seven years to reach the screen and has since surpassed Bohemian Rhapsody as the highest-grossing biopic of all time. King traces the film back to a chance meeting at a gas station in 1982 and explains why the real win is the audience showing up.
A Mother’s Blessing (03:33): King recalls showing Katherine Jackson and Michael's sister Rebbie the first hair and makeup test of Jaafar Jackson. Michael’s mother’s emotional response ranks among the top five moments of his career.
The Gas Station and the Softball Game (05:30): While pumping gas in Sherman Oaks, a young King hummed "Let's Get Serious" to Jermaine Jackson and was invited to the family's softball game. There, Michael introduced himself by tapping King on the shoulder, saying "You're it," and running off.
Learning from Scorsese (11:55): King prefers to let the film do the talking. He credits his years with Martin Scorsese for teaching him how to excite an audience, work with actors, run a set, and layer music into the story.
Previews, Critics, and the Real Win (20:21): Scorsese taught King the value of fresh eyes from outside the business. He admits he has ignored warnings and paid for it, and he argues that reviewers critiqued Michael Jackson rather than the movie. King tells filmmakers that the green light isn't the win; the audience showing up is.
Casting and Testing Michael (29:52): King shares how his daughter suggested Colman Domingo would make a great Joe Jackson. He tells the story about the lunch where he told Jaafar Jackson he was auditioning to play his uncle, the three years of preparation that followed, and the boundless energy of first-time actor Juliano Krue Valdi. Unable to preview Michael publicly, he leaned on Goetz's and editor John Ottman’s reactions.
The Departed at 20 and Dancing Audiences (49:47): King calls The Departed the hardest and most memorable film he has produced, and says his goal was to be the producer when Scorsese finally won his Oscar. Seeing audiences around the world dance through Michael's end credits, he says, is higher than any award.
Host: Kevin Goetz
Guest: Graham King
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, Nick Nunez, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)
For more information about Graham King:
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_King
IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0454752/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/popular/graham-king-producer/?hl=en
For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

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Bob Greenblatt joins host Kevin Goetz for a conversation that follows the television executive through four separate turnarounds, from a struggling young Fox Network to the top of Showtime, NBC, and WarnerMedia Entertainment. Greenblatt helped develop Beverly Hills, 90210, The X-Files, and Party of Five at Fox, produced Six Feet Under, turned Showtime into a creative rival to HBO with Weeds and Dexter, ran NBC during the network's return to number one with The Voice and This Is Us, and later helped launch HBO Max. He's also a five-time Tony-winning Broadway producer.
Learning the Business from Peter Chernin and Scott Rudin (06:28): After an MBA and film school, Greenblatt credits his mentors Scott Rudin and Peter Chernin for the real education in how to give notes and run a company without losing the creative instinct.
Launching Fox with Beverly Hills, 90210 (15:36): Greenblatt walks through developing 90210 from Barry Diller's original idea, hiring an unproven Darren Star to write it, and watching the 90-minute pilot test through the roof. Its breakout success helped define the young-adult demo strategy that built the network.
American Beauty, and the Birth of Six Feet Under (24:13): Greenblatt recounts partnering with David Janollari to launch their production company, signing sitcom writer Alan Ball without realizing he'd also written a script called American Beauty, and sending that script to HBO right as the film became an Oscar-winning phenomenon. HBO ordered Six Feet Under straight off the page.
Turning Around Showtime and NBC (34:55): Greenblatt explains his pattern of leaving a job once it stops changing, his preference for buying over developing, and how he rebuilt Showtime around original series like Dexter and Weeds. He also details how The Voice gave NBC the lead-ins it needed to climb back to number one.
Executive Mentors and the One That Got Away (39:53): Asked to name the greatest network executive in television history, Greenblatt points to Brandon Tartikoff and Grant Tinker's "first be best, then be first" philosophy. He also revisits Profit, his short-lived anti-hero drama that paved the way for Dexter, and his famous pass on Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
The Green Room  and The Rockford Files (48:54): Greenblatt previews current projects at his production company The Green Room. He closes by discussing his Broadway work on Ragtime, and his memoir, The Rockford Files.
Host: Kevin Goetz
Guest: Bob Greenblatt
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, Nick Nunez, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)
For more information about Bob Greenblatt:
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Greenblatt
IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0338612/
Playbill: https://playbill.com/person/robert-greenblatt-vault-0000116172
For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

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Billy Ray, the Oscar-nominated screenwriter behind Captain Phillips, The Hunger Games, Shattered Glass, Richard Jewell, State of Play, Breach, and Flight Plan, joins host Kevin Goetz for a candid conversation about the throughline of integrity in his work and the mechanics of great storytelling. Ray lays out his theory of what every protagonist and villain requires using Jaws, Rocky, The Wizard of Oz, and Ordinary People as case studies, and shares stories from Donald Sutherland, Jennifer Jones, and the making of The Hunger Games.
Integrity and the Stories Billy Ray Tells (01:41): Ray identifies integrity as the recurring theme in his work, and explains why the best screenwriting is an intellectual exercise designed to create an emotional response rather than an impressive one.
The Untold Story of Ukraine's Abducted Children (10:20): Kevin and Billy discuss Ash and Crayons, a documentary about children abducted from Ukraine into Russia during the war. He calls it the great untold story of the conflict.
Knowing Your Audience: Messaging and Persuasion (13:35): A discussion about political communication becomes a broader conversation about audiences. Ray argues that effective messaging begins by understanding where people are emotionally and moving them from there, a principle Goetz connects directly to movie marketing and persuasive advertising.
What Makes a Great Screenplay? (22:38): Ray recalls being handed Ordinary People by his literary-agent father as the standard to aspire to, and lays out his fundamental rule of character: a protagonist needs an external problem to solve and an internal problem only the story can fix.
Great Characters, Great Villains, and the Cathartic Contract (26:29): Using Ordinary People, Rocky, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, and Schindler's List, Ray and Goetz examine character construction. Ray argues a great antagonist needs a defensible point of view.
Outworking the Competition and Shattered Glass (42:01): Ray discusses early influences including Rod Serling, and his realization that he couldn't control talent or the industry, only how hard he worked. He names Shattered Glass, his directing debut, as the film he's proudest of.
The Hunger Games and the Art of Reverse Engineering (46:30): Ray remembers reading Suzanne Collins' novel overnight and recognizing its potential. He shares changes that strengthened the adaptation, and the security measures involved in writing the franchise's newest installment.
Failure, Audience Testing, and the Oscar Chase (51:15): Ray speaks candidly about directing Secret in Their Eyes, losing an investor's money, and his Oscar nomination for Captain Phillips, including why chasing that recognition can be dangerous for a career.
Host: Kevin Goetz
Guest: Billy Ray
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, Nick Nunez, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)
For more information about Billy Ray:
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Ray_(screenwriter)
IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0712753/
Burn the Water (Book): https://a.co/d/0f0raSWF
For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

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Roy Lee, the producer behind some of Hollywood’s most successful horror films, franchises, and international adaptations, joins host Kevin Goetz to explore the unconventional path that took him from law school to building one of the most prolific producing careers in Hollywood. Lee has produced or executive produced The Ring, The Grudge, The Departed, It, Doctor Sleep, The Lego Movie, How to Train Your Dragon, Barbarian, Weapons, and A Minecraft Movie, among dozens of others. Through his company Vertigo Entertainment, he's built a reputation for spotting opportunity where others see risk, whether that means Asian horror remakes, emerging filmmakers, or video game IP. 
From Law School to Script Tracker (02:56): Lee describes going from law school to taking a job at a production company after moving to Los Angeles, where he was a development executive and script tracker responsible for knowing virtually every script and manuscript circulating around town.
Twenty-Five Asian Films in Twenty-Five Months (10:20): Lee explains how he acquired the rights to twenty-five Asian titles, including The Ring, The Grudge, and The Departed. Eighteen of the twenty-five eventually made it to the screen.
Reading by Instinct: What Makes Roy Lee Say Yes (15:54): Lee lays out his process, reading scripts between 4 and 6 a.m., abandoning any that don't make him care about the characters after the first act, and passing on stories he can predict in full.
It, Reinvented (17:52): Lee recounts discovering that Warner Bros. quietly owned the rights to Stephen King's It, and pitching his producing partner Dan Lin on isolating the kids' story as its own film.
The Barbarian Gamble (22:57): Every studio passed on Barbarian, but Lee was certain from the first act that it worked. It became a sleeper hit that also launched his ongoing partnership with writer-director Zach Cregger onWeapons and the upcoming Gladys.
The Departed: A Home Run from the Start (29:11): Lee remembers watching Infernal Affairs, the Hong Kong film that would become The Departed, and knowing immediately it was a sure thing that went on to win the Best Picture Oscar.
Common Sense, No Regrets, and Advice for the Next Generation (35:44): Asked about his superpower, Lee points to good judgment and the ability to capitalize on opportunity. He tells aspiring filmmakers that talent, not just passion, should determine who tries to break in.
Where AI Fits In (40:06): Lee predicts AI will cut visual effects budgets, streamline storyboarding and animatics, and reshape script reading, even as he doubts audiences will see fully AI-generated lead performances anytime soon.
Host: Kevin Goetz
Guest: Roy Lee
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, Nick Nunez, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)
For more information about Roy Lee:
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Lee
IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0498175/
X: https://x.com/royleeroy25?lang=en
For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com