Don't Kill the Messenger with Movie Strategist Kevin Goetz

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Ann Sarnoff, the first woman to serve as Chair and CEO of a major Hollywood studio and named one of Forbes' World's Most Powerful Women, joins host Kevin Goetz for a conversation about her path from a working-class upbringing in Massachusetts to the top of the entertainment industry. From her early days at Nickelodeon pioneering audience research, to guiding Warner Bros. through one of the most turbulent periods in Hollywood history, to her current role on the boards of major entertainment companies, Sarnoff shares insights on leadership, the power of knowing your audience, and what theaters must do to survive.
From Wilbraham to Warner Bros. (03:11): Sarnoff discusses her roots in a blue-collar, Polish-Catholic family in Massachusetts, where she played three varsity sports, instilling competitive instincts and teamwork skills that would define her leadership style.
Georgetown, Harvard, and the Road to Media (04:06): With no family connections to the industry and student loans to repay, Sarnoff built her foundation in strategy consulting before finally making her move into media.
Nickelodeon and MTV (22:23): As head of strategy and research at Nickelodeon, Sarnoff championed deep audience research, running 200 focus groups a year. That rigor produced breakout hits like Rugrats and Blue's Clues.
Audience as North Star (21:21): Sarnoff explains how cable television changed the broadcast model by starting with the customer, building channels around specific passions rather than the broadest possible reach. That philosophy of programming for real audiences became the throughline of her entire career.
Breaking the Barrier at Warner Bros. (28:03): Ann shares her experience of becoming the first female CEO of Warner Bros. in 2019 and occupying Jack Warner's office, her picture joining a wall of men dating back to 1923. Sarnoff reflects on the women who came before her, and guiding the iconic studio through a pandemic, a streaming revolution, and a corporate merger.
What Comes Next (36:00): Sarnoff breaks down how the combination of streaming, COVID-era demand, and supply-side surplus led to a wave of content the industry is only now working through. She's cautiously optimistic that a leaner, more creatively diverse slate is emerging on the other side.
Theaters as Third Spaces (47:04): Drawing on her board role at Regal Cineworld, Sarnoff argues that the future of theatrical exhibition lies in becoming a communal “third space, and that the only real limit is imagination.”

Host: Kevin Goetz
Guest: Ann Sarnoff
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)
For more information about Ann Sarnoff:
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Sarnoff
IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2115707/
Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/profi
For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

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Stuart Ford, Chairman and CEO of AGC Studios and one of the most influential figures in independent cinema, joins host Kevin Goetz for a candid conversation about his journey from Oxford-educated lawyer to Miramax insider to founder of two major independent studios. Ford reflects on the mentors, deals, and instincts that shaped his career, and shares an optimistic vision for the future of independent film in an era of AI, streaming, and global market expansion.
From Liverpool to Hollywood (04:17): Ford traces his unlikely path from an upbringing in Liverpool through Oxford, where he studied law and caught the entrepreneurial bug managing bands, to becoming an entertainment attorney during the British cinema boom of the early 90s.
Miramax: The Real Film School (09:26): Drawn to the energy of American independent cinema, Ford leveraged his relationship with Miramax's UK office into a move to New York, where he rose to senior executive, co-heading acquisitions and ultimately leading international sales, working with filmmakers including Quentin Tarantino, Anthony Minghella, and James Mangold.
The Birth of IM Global (14:55): After leaving Miramax, Ford moved to Los Angeles, borrowed $5 million from a London hedge fund, and launched IM Global in 2007.
Paranormal Activity (19:50): Ford recounts acquiring the international rights to Paranormal Activity for $250,000 while the film languished at DreamWorks, then orchestrating a midnight screening that helped persuade Paramount to release it. Kevin Goetz reveals that a reshoot suggested by Steven Spielberg raised test scores by 15 to 20 points and sealed the deal.
Launching AGC Studios (29:17): After selling IM Global to a Chinese private equity group, Ford launched AGC Studios in 2018. AGC has since produced nearly 45 films and television shows, including Hitman, Woman of the Hour, The Tinder Swindler, and Those About to Die.
The Art of Risk Management (32:57): Ford lays out his core investment philosophy: financial and creative risk are inseparable, and the key is to manage both simultaneously. He offers Ron Howard's Eden as a case study in successful risk management.
The Future of Independent Film (43:23): Ford shares an optimistic outlook for the independent sector, citing evolving streaming models, cost reductions, and growth in international markets as reasons for optimism. His message for the next generation is simple: responsible filmmaking doesn't mean compromising on creativity. It just means doing it at the right number.

Host: Kevin Goetz
Guest: Stuart Ford
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)
For more information about Stuart Ford:
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Ford_(entertainment_executive)
IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1023349/
For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

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Filmmaker Ric Roman Waugh joins host Kevin Goetz for a conversation about his unconventional path from stuntman's son to one of Hollywood's most distinctive action directors. Waugh discusses growing up inside the stunt world, his mentors, and his mission to make commercial action films that also deliver an important message. During the conversation, he touches on his collaborations with Dwayne Johnson, Gerard Butler, and Jason Statham, and on films such as Felon, Snitch, Shot Caller, Angel Has Fallen, Greenland, and Shelter that have defined his brand of character-driven action movies.
Working with Tony Scott and Jerry Bruckheimer (02:47): Waugh credits Tony Scott and Jerry Bruckheimer as the mentors who shaped his collaborative instinct…leaders who respected everyone on set, demanded the best, and inspired those around them.
Growing Up in Stunts Unlimited (06:13): Waugh's father, Fred Waugh, was a founding member of Stunts Unlimited, the legendary stunt group led by Hal Needham. Ric grew up on sets and, to his father’s disappointment, was more dazzled by the stuntmen than the movie stars.
In the Writers' Room (15:20): Before directing, Waugh spent years writing originals for producers like Mark Gordon, Neil Moritz, and Jerry Bruckheimer. He describes how this process taught him how Hollywood actually worked.
Finding His Voice and Making Felon (17:54): Inspired by Sidney Lumet's socially-conscious entertainments, he researched the California prison system, became a volunteer parole agent, and made Felon on spec.
Snitch and Dwayne Johnson (24:10): Working with Dwayne Johnson on Snitch was a pivotal experience for Waugh. Both men were at a crossroads in their careers, and this film helped clarify Waugh’s mission: to use the commercial action films as a Trojan horse for social commentary.
The Audience Is the Real Collaborator (29:56): Waugh reflects on his long working relationship with Kevin Goetz and the role of test screenings in his process. Waugh shares how he uses early and formal audience feedback to identify what isn't being communicated.
Marketing in a Distracted World (46:10): Waugh and Goetz discuss the challenge of building audiences for original stories amid the declining effectiveness of traditional marketing.
If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review and share it with a fellow film lover. We look forward to bringing you more behind-the-scenes stories next time on Don't Kill the Messenger.

Host: Kevin Goetz
Guest: Ric Roman Waugh
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)
For more information about Ric Roman Waugh:
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ric_Roman_Waugh
IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0006846/
Instagram:
For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

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Hollywood icon Robert Wagner (known as “RJ”) joins host Kevin Goetz for an intimate, wide-ranging conversation about his life and career. From caddying alongside Clark Gable and Cary Grant to starring opposite Spencer Tracy. From the golden age of the studio system to reinventing himself as a television star, Wagner reflects on the journey that made him one of Hollywood's most enduring figures, later delighting a new generation of audiences as Number 2 in the Austin Powers films. He also reflects on his personal life, including his marriage to actress Natalie Wood, and the family and friendships that shaped him, including his wife of nearly four decades, Jill St. John.
Caddying for Legends (06:21): Wagner recounts his early days as a caddy, where he found himself watching Clark Gable, Cary Grant, Fred Astaire, and Randolph Scott walk down the fairway.
Marilyn Monroe and Screen Tests (09:22): As Fox's go-to "screen test guy," Wagner did Marilyn Monroe's first two tests. His own breakthrough came when Zanuck cast him as a shell-shocked soldier in With a Song in My Heart.
Spencer Tracy as Mentor (14:49): Working alongside Tracy in Broken Lance, Wagner earned the older actor's respect and friendship.
Advice from Cary Grant (18:07): When Wagner was preparing to play a thief for It Takes a Thief, he went to Grant for guidance. Years later he would become a television icon again opposite Stefanie Powers in Hart to Hart.
Lou Wasserman and the Move to Television 18:41): At a time when television was considered beneath film stars, Lew Wasserman called Wagner in and told him, "I think this is your medium."
Barbara Stanwyck and Bette Davis (22:43): Wagner speaks warmly about his three-year relationship with Barbara Stanwyck. He also recalls reaching out to Bette Davis after she publicly praised his work.
John Ford Knocks Him Down…Literally (26:39): On the set of a John Ford film, Wagner followed a script direction and glanced toward where music was playing. Ford stopped the scene, questioned him, and knocked him down.
Pink Panther (29:21): When the studio system collapsed, and Fox dropped its contract players, Wagner moved to Rome and worked on The Pink Panther, his all-time favorite film.
Jill St. John, Family, and Friends (36:16): In one of the episode's most moving moments, Wagner reflects on the profound role friends and family have played in his life.
Few careers in Hollywood history span as many eras, genres, or legends as Robert Wagner's, and fewer still have been lived with such grace. 
Host: Kevin Goetz
Guests: Robert Wagner
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)
For more information about Robert Wagner:
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Wagner
IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/n
For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

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In this episode of Don't Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz welcomes Bob Cooper, the influential executive who helped transform HBO from a movie channel into a creative powerhouse, producing landmark films like The Josephine Baker Story and Barbarians at the Gate, and who later shaped the theatrical landscape as President of Tri-Star Pictures and head of development and production at Dreamworks, where he championed American Beauty. From prosecuting organized crime in Montreal to greenlighting American Beauty, Bob's career is a lesson in reinvention and risk-taking.
Finding Your "And" (00:28): Bob traces his winding path from studying acting at the Pasadena Playhouse to law school to founding Canada's first storefront legal aid office to prosecuting organized crime to hosting a national investigative news program.
The Birth of HBO Originals (14:47): When his early Canadian film production company collapsed, Bob flew to New York in desperation and pitched HBO on making original movies, starting with The Terry Fox Story.
No Vanilla Allowed (19:34): Bob developed a strategy of bold, true-story-based films that couldn't be seen in theaters or on network TV. The Josephine Baker Story became the blueprint.
The Projects Nobody Wanted (22:29): Bob consistently bet on the projects others passed on, championing films like And the Band Played On, Barbarians at the Gate, and The Positively True Adventures of the Alleged Texas Cheerleader-Murdering Mom.
Tristar and Jerry Maguire (28:26): Bob shares how he helped crack the marketing code on Jerry Maguire by identifying its core theme as "a comedy about not selling out.”
Dreamworks and American Beauty (37:22): At Dreamworks, Bob got Steven Spielberg to read a script that was almost impossible to pitch – American Beauty. Spielberg read it overnight, called a meeting the next morning, and immediately declared it "an Academy movie."
Meet the Parents and the Spielberg Phone Call (41:25): Bob spotted an unmade script at Universal called Meet the Parents and brought it to Spielberg, who simply picked up the phone and called Edgar Bronfman on the spot to acquire it.
What Makes Stories Universal (47:15): Bob shares his deepest creative philosophy: that pain is the engine of every great story, including comedy. He closes with a moving account of his current stage project about Bobby Kennedy.
Bob Cooper's career is a reminder that unconventional paths often lead to the most enduring work. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review and share. We look forward to bringing you more behind-the-scenes revelations next time on Don't Kill the Messenger.
Host: Kevin Goetz
Guests: Bob Cooper
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, Nick Nunez, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer & Editor: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)
For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com