Don't Kill the Messenger with Movie Strategist Kevin Goetz

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Filmmaker Ric Roman Waugh joins host Kevin Goetz for a conversation about his unconventional path from stuntman's son to one of Hollywood's most distinctive action directors. Waugh discusses growing up inside the stunt world, his mentors, and his mission to make commercial action films that also deliver an important message. During the conversation, he touches on his collaborations with Dwayne Johnson, Gerard Butler, and Jason Statham, and on films such as Felon, Snitch, Shot Caller, Angel Has Fallen, Greenland, and Shelter that have defined his brand of character-driven action movies.
Working with Tony Scott and Jerry Bruckheimer (02:47): Waugh credits Tony Scott and Jerry Bruckheimer as the mentors who shaped his collaborative instinct…leaders who respected everyone on set, demanded the best, and inspired those around them.
Growing Up in Stunts Unlimited (06:13): Waugh's father, Fred Waugh, was a founding member of Stunts Unlimited, the legendary stunt group led by Hal Needham. Ric grew up on sets and, to his father’s disappointment, was more dazzled by the stuntmen than the movie stars.
In the Writers' Room (15:20): Before directing, Waugh spent years writing originals for producers like Mark Gordon, Neil Moritz, and Jerry Bruckheimer. He describes how this process taught him how Hollywood actually worked.
Finding His Voice and Making Felon (17:54): Inspired by Sidney Lumet's socially-conscious entertainments, he researched the California prison system, became a volunteer parole agent, and made Felon on spec.
Snitch and Dwayne Johnson (24:10): Working with Dwayne Johnson on Snitch was a pivotal experience for Waugh. Both men were at a crossroads in their careers, and this film helped clarify Waugh’s mission: to use the commercial action films as a Trojan horse for social commentary.
The Audience Is the Real Collaborator (29:56): Waugh reflects on his long working relationship with Kevin Goetz and the role of test screenings in his process. Waugh shares how he uses early and formal audience feedback to identify what isn't being communicated.
Marketing in a Distracted World (46:10): Waugh and Goetz discuss the challenge of building audiences for original stories amid the declining effectiveness of traditional marketing.
If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review and share it with a fellow film lover. We look forward to bringing you more behind-the-scenes stories next time on Don't Kill the Messenger.

Host: Kevin Goetz
Guest: Ric Roman Waugh
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)
For more information about Ric Roman Waugh:
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ric_Roman_Waugh
IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0006846/
Instagram:
For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

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Hollywood icon Robert Wagner (known as “RJ”) joins host Kevin Goetz for an intimate, wide-ranging conversation about his life and career. From caddying alongside Clark Gable and Cary Grant to starring opposite Spencer Tracy. From the golden age of the studio system to reinventing himself as a television star, Wagner reflects on the journey that made him one of Hollywood's most enduring figures, later delighting a new generation of audiences as Number 2 in the Austin Powers films. He also reflects on his personal life, including his marriage to actress Natalie Wood, and the family and friendships that shaped him, including his wife of nearly four decades, Jill St. John.
Caddying for Legends (06:21): Wagner recounts his early days as a caddy, where he found himself watching Clark Gable, Cary Grant, Fred Astaire, and Randolph Scott walk down the fairway.
Marilyn Monroe and Screen Tests (09:22): As Fox's go-to "screen test guy," Wagner did Marilyn Monroe's first two tests. His own breakthrough came when Zanuck cast him as a shell-shocked soldier in With a Song in My Heart.
Spencer Tracy as Mentor (14:49): Working alongside Tracy in Broken Lance, Wagner earned the older actor's respect and friendship.
Advice from Cary Grant (18:07): When Wagner was preparing to play a thief for It Takes a Thief, he went to Grant for guidance. Years later he would become a television icon again opposite Stefanie Powers in Hart to Hart.
Lou Wasserman and the Move to Television 18:41): At a time when television was considered beneath film stars, Lew Wasserman called Wagner in and told him, "I think this is your medium."
Barbara Stanwyck and Bette Davis (22:43): Wagner speaks warmly about his three-year relationship with Barbara Stanwyck. He also recalls reaching out to Bette Davis after she publicly praised his work.
John Ford Knocks Him Down…Literally (26:39): On the set of a John Ford film, Wagner followed a script direction and glanced toward where music was playing. Ford stopped the scene, questioned him, and knocked him down.
Pink Panther (29:21): When the studio system collapsed, and Fox dropped its contract players, Wagner moved to Rome and worked on The Pink Panther, his all-time favorite film.
Jill St. John, Family, and Friends (36:16): In one of the episode's most moving moments, Wagner reflects on the profound role friends and family have played in his life.
Few careers in Hollywood history span as many eras, genres, or legends as Robert Wagner's, and fewer still have been lived with such grace. 
Host: Kevin Goetz
Guests: Robert Wagner
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)
For more information about Robert Wagner:
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Wagner
IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/n
For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

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In this episode of Don't Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz welcomes Bob Cooper, the influential executive who helped transform HBO from a movie channel into a creative powerhouse, producing landmark films like The Josephine Baker Story and Barbarians at the Gate, and who later shaped the theatrical landscape as President of Tri-Star Pictures and head of development and production at Dreamworks, where he championed American Beauty. From prosecuting organized crime in Montreal to greenlighting American Beauty, Bob's career is a lesson in reinvention and risk-taking.
Finding Your "And" (00:28): Bob traces his winding path from studying acting at the Pasadena Playhouse to law school to founding Canada's first storefront legal aid office to prosecuting organized crime to hosting a national investigative news program.
The Birth of HBO Originals (14:47): When his early Canadian film production company collapsed, Bob flew to New York in desperation and pitched HBO on making original movies, starting with The Terry Fox Story.
No Vanilla Allowed (19:34): Bob developed a strategy of bold, true-story-based films that couldn't be seen in theaters or on network TV. The Josephine Baker Story became the blueprint.
The Projects Nobody Wanted (22:29): Bob consistently bet on the projects others passed on, championing films like And the Band Played On, Barbarians at the Gate, and The Positively True Adventures of the Alleged Texas Cheerleader-Murdering Mom.
Tristar and Jerry Maguire (28:26): Bob shares how he helped crack the marketing code on Jerry Maguire by identifying its core theme as "a comedy about not selling out.”
Dreamworks and American Beauty (37:22): At Dreamworks, Bob got Steven Spielberg to read a script that was almost impossible to pitch – American Beauty. Spielberg read it overnight, called a meeting the next morning, and immediately declared it "an Academy movie."
Meet the Parents and the Spielberg Phone Call (41:25): Bob spotted an unmade script at Universal called Meet the Parents and brought it to Spielberg, who simply picked up the phone and called Edgar Bronfman on the spot to acquire it.
What Makes Stories Universal (47:15): Bob shares his deepest creative philosophy: that pain is the engine of every great story, including comedy. He closes with a moving account of his current stage project about Bobby Kennedy.
Bob Cooper's career is a reminder that unconventional paths often lead to the most enduring work. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review and share. We look forward to bringing you more behind-the-scenes revelations next time on Don't Kill the Messenger.
Host: Kevin Goetz
Guests: Bob Cooper
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, Nick Nunez, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer & Editor: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)
For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

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In this episode of Don’t Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz sits down with Academy Award-winning producer Charles "Chuck" Roven, the co-founder of Atlas Entertainment, one of Hollywood’s most enduring and successful production companies. Across four decades, Chuck has built a producing career defined by creative ambition and commercial scale — including five of the 100 top-grossing films of all time.  From his early struggles to winning the Academy Award for Oppenheimer, Chuck’s journey reveals how smart dealmaking, creative instinct, and relentless tenacity shaped one of the most impressive producing legacies in modern Hollywood.
From Czechoslovakia to Cinderella Homes (03:22): Chuck's father escaped post-war Europe and built a real estate empire in Los Angeles, teaching Chuck the principle of horizontal business.
Dawn Steel (08:16): Chuck recounts meeting his first wife, Dawn Steel, who revolutionized her way into Hollywood through merchandising hits like Gucci toilet paper before becoming Paramount's president of production.
The 90-Day Escrow Deal (20:48): Instead of optioning Dick Tracy, Chuck negotiated a 90-day escrow deal to "check the title," wrote a script, and sold it to Universal.
12 Monkeys and the Art of International Financing (30:34): Chuck explains how he assembled a consortium of international partners to co-finance Terry Gilliam's $32 million film.
The Phone Call That Led to Batman Begins (36:30): After producing the hit Scooby-Doo, Chuck received a call inviting him to partner with an up-and-coming director named Christopher Nolan on a little project called Batman Begins.
Bringing Oppenheimer to Nolan and Winning the Oscar (37:29): Chuck recounts how he brought the Oppenheimer project to Christopher Nolan. The film earned 11 Oscar nominations and Chuck's first Best Picture win.
Making Mercy (42:24): Chuck describes developing the "Screen Life" concept into the thriller Mercy, featuring an AI judge with access to every camera and computer.
The Value of Test Screenings (46:34): Despite working with directors like Christopher Nolan who prefer friends-and-family screenings, Chuck explains why recruited audience testing remains invaluable.
Chuck Roven's producing philosophy combines his father's business lessons with an unwavering respect for the audience, proving that hunger, passion, and smart dealmaking can result in four decades of Hollywood success.
If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review and share. We look forward to bringing you more behind-the-scenes revelations next time on Don't Kill the Messenger.
Host: Kevin Goetz
Guests: Charles “Chuck” Roven
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)
For more information about Chuck Roven:
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Roven
IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0746273/
For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

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In this episode of Don't Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz welcomes Gail Berman, one of Hollywood's most versatile executives. From producing Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat on Broadway at 22 to becoming the first woman to lead both a major TV network (Fox Entertainment) and a film studio (Paramount Pictures), she has consistently rewritten what creative leadership looks like in Hollywood.
From Brooklyn to Broadway: The Joseph Origin Story (04:03): At just 22 years old, Gail and her partner, Susan Rose, produced Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. They brought the show to Broadway, earning seven Tony nominations.
The Red Dress and the Palisades Fires (15:52): Gail's Tony Awards dress remains in storage due to insurance settlements following the recent Palisades fires that damaged her home.
Starting Over in Television (19:30): Gail shares how she received a message on her answering machine about a new venture at HBO. Despite knowing nothing about television, she took the job at the comedy channel that would become Comedy Central.
The Buffy Breakthrough at Sandollar (23:56): After reading the Buffy the Vampire Slayer film script, Gail saw it as a perfect TV show. While serving as President of Sandollar, she partnered with Sandy Gallin and Dolly Parton to develop and executive produce the show—launching a cultural phenomenon.
The Austin Butler Screen Test for Elvis (28:26): When Baz Luhrmann showed four screen tests, Austin Butler's was last. The film would earn Gail an Academy Award nomination for Best Picture.
From Regency Television to Running Fox (33:49): After producing Malcolm in the Middle, Roswell, and The Bernie Mac Show at Regency Television, Gail received a call from Peter Chernin asking her to run Fox Entertainment.
The Paramount Years (40:28): Hired to run Paramount Pictures, MTV Films, and Nickelodeon Films, Gail faced some resistance. She secured the Star Trek film rights back from CBS with just 18 months to put it into production, hiring J.J. Abrams and Damon Lindelof to work fast.
Black Swan: The Musical (50:43): After leaving Paramount, Gail launched The Jackal Group. She's now producing the musical adaptation of Black Swan with Darren Aronofsky, Kevin McCollum, and Scott Franklin.
Gail Berman's story shows how versatility and the willingness to start over can create a remarkable career. From Broadway to broadcast television to film, she's proven that embracing new challenges leads to extraordinary places.
Host: Kevin Goetz
Guests: Gail Berman
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)
For more information about Gail Berman:
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gail_Berman
IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0075762/
LinkedIn:
For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com