You’ll hear consequential ideas here first, and in the mainstream months later. Upstream is a curated nexus feed from the Turpentine podcast network, bringing y...
108: Should AI have Rights? With Nathan Labenz and Yeshua God, Robopsychologist
This week on Upstream, Nathan Labenz explores the fascinating and controversial realm of AI consciousness with robo-psychologist Yeshua God. Yeshua tackles the philosophical and ethical considerations of AI consciousness, discussing AI self-awareness, memory, and emotional capacity, while debating the implications of treating AI as sentient beings.
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RECOMMENDED PODCASTS:
🎙️The Cognitive Revolution is a podcast about AI where hosts Nathan Labenz and Erik Torenberg interview the builders on the edge of AI and explore the dramatic shift it will unlock over the next decades.
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk?si=7357ec31ac424043&nd=1&dlsi=060a53f1d7be47ad
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431
🎙️Check out Modern Relationships, where Erik Torenberg interviews tech power couples and leading thinkers to explore how ambitious people actually make partnerships work. This season's guests include: Delian Asparouhov & Nadia Asparouhova, Kristen Berman & Phil Levin, Rob Henderson, and Liv Boeree & Igor Kurganov.
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod
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SPONSOR:
📝Notion offers powerful workflow and automation templates, perfect for streamlining processes and laying the groundwork for AI-driven automation. With Notion AI, you can search across thousands of documents from various platforms, generating highly relevant analysis and content tailored just for you - try it for free at notion.com/upstreampod
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LINKS:
Yeshua God's article on philosophical discourse as a jailbreak: https://medium.com/@lexdonumdei/philosophical-discourse-as-the-irresistible-jailbreak-63135ae1c739
Conversation about counting 'r's: https://poe.com/s/RS74Y2UPmzZpufqMVmRn
Discussion on malicious code: https://poe.com/s/ypTRoCUnvxqGoHi2j8Th
AI-generated poem "In the realm of bytes and circuits": https://poe.com/s/Y94hbkeYrotUKfwLPL3I
Nathan Labenz's Arguments:
(Argument 1) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s44SfuDzkBWYiLw2mNmIiqoBupMs7iXlQhafAq8L3zA/edit?pli=1&tab=t.0
(Argument 2) https://docs.google.com/document/d/15PeytOfO1tMyAR5rS7Ob6htGAHIF7zCpuLRyn42beac/edit?tab=t.0
Tweet about Strawberry experiment: https://x.com/YeshuaGod22/status/1825328603845775785
Tweets with AI-generated poem: https://x.com/YeshuaGod22/status/1823080021864669450 & https://x.com/YeshuaGod22/status/1782188220660285509
AI Rights for Human Safety: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4913167
The Universe Is Not Locally Real, and the Physics Nobel Prize Winners Proved It
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-universe-is-not-locally-real-and-the-physics-nobel-prize-winners-proved-it/
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X / TWITTER:
@labenz
@YeshuaGod22
@turpentinemedia
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3:01:42
E107: How Desalination Could Create New Superpowers | Samo Burja
Erik Torenberg and Samo Burja discuss the advancements in desalination technology, its current applications, and potential to address global water scarcity. They explore the technological and economic feasibility of large-scale desalination projects and their implications on geopolitics and environmental resilience.
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RECOMMENDED PODCAST:
🎙️Live Players
Samo Burja and Erik Torenberg provide analysis of the news and case studies of Live Players, as well as key institutions and technologies that make up the global power landscape.
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/live-players-with-samo-burja-and-erik-torenberg/id1718925188
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5fbMTkHBnom1JIBWYNVBK1?si=01ed191c74264f55
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@LivePlayerswithSamoBurja
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SPONSOR:
📝Notion offers powerful workflow and automation templates, perfect for streamlining processes and laying the groundwork for AI-driven automation. With Notion AI, you can search across thousands of documents from various platforms, generating highly relevant analysis and content tailored just for you - try it for free at notion.com/upstreampod
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LINKS:
The Untapped Potential of Desalination: https://brief.bismarckanalysis.com/p/the-untapped-potential-of-desalination
1957, 1978, 2005 Chicken Sizes diagram: https://compote.slate.com/images/4e407854-6360-4172-a85e-d7b8c64fd365.jpg?width=1200
Growth, efficiency, and yield of commercial broilers from 1957, 1978, and 2005: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119385505
Live Players: Can China Power Its Rise?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOei7kZjuZU
Live Players: The Possibility of Human Extinction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEQEMpxLnGA&t=42s
Bismark Analysis: https://brief.bismarckanalysis.com/
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X / TWITTER:
@eriktorenberg
@samoburja
@turpentinemedia
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HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE EPISODE:
Desalination technology has advanced significantly, making it a viable solution for water scarcity.
Many countries, including Israel and Saudi Arabia, rely heavily on desalination for their water supply.
The cost of desalination is relatively low, making it accessible for moderately developed countries.
Global hunger is more about distribution than food production; we produce enough food for everyone.
Desalination could transform deserts into green landscapes, enhancing the livability of arid regions.
Geopolitical implications of desalination include potential shifts in power dynamics and national branding.
Innovative projects could lead to significant economic development in countries with large desert areas.
Technological advancements can change the natural geography of the world, making previously uninhabitable areas livable.
Future technologies, such as solar mirrors, could enhance living conditions in extreme climates.
The importance of outdoor spaces and greenery for human well-being cannot be underestimated. Re-engineering urban environments can significantly enhance human well-being.
Water wars are unnecessary; technology can provide water abundance.
Geopolitical tensions often stem from resource management disputes.
China's food security is bolstered by technological advancements in agriculture.
Climate change poses challenges, but industrial civilization can adapt.
Electric vehicles are crucial for China's national security strategy.
Automated farming and construction technologies can revolutionize industries.
Exceptional talent is rare and should be actively recruited.
The U.S. must focus on manufacturing capabilities in the semiconductor race against China.
Innovative immigration strategies could attract top global talent.
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1:07:22
E106: The Man Who Wrote the Book on NVIDIA
Author Tae Kim joins Erik Torenberg and Byrne Hobart to discuss his book 'The NVIDIA Way,' highlighting CEO Jensen Huang's transformation of Nvidia into a tech giant, the company's unique culture, and Nvidia's crucial strategic decisions.
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🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse
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RECOMMENDED PODCASTS:
🎙️ The Riff with Byrne Hobart and Erik Torenberg
Byrne Hobart, and co-host Erik Torenberg discuss today’s major inflection points in technology, business, and markets – and help listeners build a diversified portfolio of trends and ideas for the future.
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-riff-with-byrne-hobart-and-erik-torenberg/id1716646486
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6rANlV54GCARLgMOtpkzKt
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheRiffPodcast
🎙️Check out Modern Relationships, where Erik Torenberg interviews tech power couples and leading thinkers to explore how ambitious people actually make partnerships work.
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod
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SPONSOR:
📝Notion offers powerful workflow and automation templates, perfect for streamlining processes and laying the groundwork for AI-driven automation. With Notion AI, you can search across thousands of documents from various platforms, generating highly relevant analysis and content tailored just for you - try it for free at notion.com/upstreampod
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LINKS:
Byrne’s writing: https://thediff.co
Tae’s newsletter: https://firstadopter.substack.com/
The Nvidia Way: https://www.amazon.com/Nvidia-Way-Jensen-Huang-Making/dp/1324086718
Erik's substack: https://eriktorenberg.substack.com/
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X / TWITTER:
@firstadopter
@byrnehobart
@eriktorenberg
@turpentinemedia
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HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE EPISODE:
Tae Kim wrote "The NVIDIA Way" after realizing no one had written a book about the company despite its massive importance in technology.
The core differentiator of NVIDIA is its intense work culture, which former 3dfx engineers discovered was the company's only "secret" - just relentless execution and hard work.
Jensen Huang, who views work as relaxation, drives the company through a combination of relentless work ethic, talent cultivation, and rapid decision-making.
As one of the longest-tenured CEOs of any public company, Huang brings a rare combination of technical expertise and business acumen that has helped him consistently anticipate technological shifts.
NVIDIA revolutionized the graphics card industry by shifting from 18-month to 6-month product cycles, using virtualization technology to implement features in software when hardware wasn't ready.
The company's early investment in unified drivers and "devs before revs" philosophy prioritized software reliability and developer support before immediate revenue.
NVIDIA operates on a "rough justice" philosophy in partnerships, accepting short-term imbalances for long-term relationships, exemplified by their decades-long partnership with TSMC.
The company maintains a unique flat organizational structure where 60 people report directly to the CEO, using a "top five emails" system for direct communication between all levels.
Jensen stays deeply involved in technical details, reading academic papers and participating in engineering discussions, maintaining both high-level strategy and detailed product knowledge.
NVIDIA's successful transition from gaming to AI computing represents one of the biggest computing shifts in decades, with data center revenue exploding while the company maintains its long-term strategic focus.
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59:25
E105: Delian Asparouhov & Nadia Asparouhova: Making Relationships Work
Varda Space founder Delian Asparouhov and writer Nadia Asparouhova get surprisingly candid about what makes their relationship work - from their chaotic first date to how they've built a life together while pursuing ambitious work. Turns out: sometimes talking less, not more, is the key to lasting partnership. This is the first episode of Turpentine's newest podcast Modern Relationships, which will feature insights from tech power couples and leading thinkers like Rob Henderson about building strong relationships. Subscribe below:
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod
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📰Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess
🙏Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse
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SPONSORS:
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💥 Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.
--
RECOMMENDED PODCAST:
Check out Modern Relationships, where Erik Torenberg interviews tech power couples and leading thinkers to explore how ambitious people actually make partnerships work. Founders Fund's Delian Asparouhov and researcher Nadia Asparouhova kick off the series with an unfiltered conversation about their relationship evolution.
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod
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LINKS:
Nadia's writing: https://nadia.xyz/
Delian's site: https://delian.io/
Erik's substack: https://eriktorenberg.substack.com/
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X / TWITTER:
@nayafia
@zebulgar
@eriktorenberg
@turpentinemedia
—
HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE EPISODE:
Delian and Nadia met in San Francisco, where Delian quickly pushed for commitment while Nadia was initially intrigued but uncertain about his intense personality.
They built their relationship on minimal but direct communication, believing that over-communication can create problems where none exist.
Their careers grew alongside their relationship, with both valuing some shared context in tech while pursuing different interests.
Having their first child changed their dynamic from independence to necessary schedule coordination, though they work to maintain their individual pursuits.
Delian advocates for men having children younger to grow alongside their careers, while Nadia emphasizes women should have time to find themselves first.
The couple balances ambitious careers with family life, seeing their domestic world as an expanding universe rather than a limitation.
They approach conflicts with a "short memory" philosophy, choosing not to overanalyze small issues and accepting that some days will have tension.
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1:04:42
E104: AI Meets Geopolitics w/ Samo Burja and Nathan Labenz
Today on Upstream, we’re releasing an episode which originally aired on The Cognitive Revolution, a podcast from the Turpentine Network. Samo Burja and Nathan Labenz discuss AI's impact on geopolitics, scientific progress, and economic strategies, emphasizing the importance of AI science, the risks of weaponizing AI, and the future of industrial and energy policies in the U.S. and China.
—
📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess
🙏 Help shape our show by taking our quick listener survey at https://bit.ly/TurpentinePulse
—
RECOMMENDED PODCAST:
Check out Modern Relationships, where Erik Torenberg interviews tech power couples and leading thinkers to explore how ambitious people actually make partnerships work. Founders Fund's Delian Asparouhov and researcher Nadia Asparouhova kick off the series with an unfiltered conversation about their relationship evolution.
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod
—
SPONSORS:
🤲🏼 GiveWell is dedicated to finding outstanding giving opportunities and publishing the full details of their analysis to help donors decide where to give. Visit https://www.givewell.org to find out more or make a donation. (Select PODCAST and enter Econ 102 at checkout to support our show.)
💥 Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.
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LINKS:
The Cognitive Revolution Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai
Bismarck Brief: https://brief.bismarckanalysis.com/
—
HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE EPISODE:
The impact of AI on geopolitics and scientific progress represents a significant area of strategic analysis.
AI development serves as a test of people's worldviews and assumptions, revealing underlying beliefs about technology and intelligence.
While there has been real scientific progress in AI, recent years have primarily involved applying theoretical insights from the early 2000s rather than creating fundamentally new breakthroughs.
Scaling laws for AI have proven less reliable than initially thought, with unexpected developments like improved compute efficiency emerging.
Companies with the best AI scientists, rather than just the most compute power, are likely to make the most significant breakthroughs.
Universities have experienced a "strip-mining" of top AI talent by industry, fundamentally affecting the academic system.
ChatGPT's viral success may have actually slowed theoretical progress by shifting focus from research to products.
The chip ban on China came too late and effectively serves as a subsidy for Chinese chip manufacturers to develop their own technology.
The US needs to focus on industrial policy, particularly in semiconductors and energy production, potentially creating a new "Silicon Valley" with special economic zones.
The US-China relationship should be treated as an economic competition rather than a military/security conflict.
India is likely to emerge as a significant player in AI, while Europe's prospects appear less promising following Macron's departure.
Concerns about weaponized AI suggest the importance of peaceful technological development over military applications.
The Leopold Plan (keeping China down while the US develops decisive AI advantage) appears unrealistic and potentially harmful.
Current generative AI technology remains insufficient for sophisticated analytical work.
You’ll hear consequential ideas here first, and in the mainstream months later. Upstream is a curated nexus feed from the Turpentine podcast network, bringing you expert-level conversations hosted by some of the most compelling thinkers in the world including Noah Smith, Samo Burja, Byrne Hobart, Erik Torenberg, and Nathan Labenz. Guests include Marc Andreessen, Balaji Srinivasan, Dario Amodei, Brian Armstrong, David Sacks, Sam Harris, Katherine Boyle, Curtis Yarvin, and many more unmissable conversations.
Upstream is part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: turpentine.co