It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. In today's episode, co-hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson continue Graham Taylor’s England story as the 1994 World Cup qualifying begins to wobble, with Paul Gascoigne’s talent and volatility dominating the narrative. They examine how Taylor’s pragmatic, direct style—shaped by lower-league realities and later linked (often unfairly) to FA long-ball doctrine—collided with more technical European approaches, and how internal battles involving Charles Hughes and data pioneer Charles Reap poisoned the backdrop. England’s campaign lurches through a Norway draw at Wembley after a late stunner, a Gascoigne-inspired win over Turkey, and a damaging 2–2 draw with the Netherlands featuring an undetected elbow and a late penalty. With Gascoigne returning in a mask, England then stumble in a hostile Poland away match and escape with a late equaliser, before Taylor’s brutal “headless chickens” verdict leaves his team heading to Oslo under growing pressure.

00:24 Setting the Scene
03:08 Taylor’s Pragmatic Roots
06:50 Pressing vs Possession
10:04 Charles Hughes and the Winning Formula
13:55 Reap vs Hughes Fallout
19:31 Norway’s Long Ball Irony
21:59 Back to Qualifying Hopes
24:10 Gazza’s Norway Controversy
26:50 Taylor’s Gaza Dilemma
28:22 Norway Opener Heartbreak
30:53 Turkey Win and Dependence
32:53 Too Honest With Press
40:12 Dutch Clash at Wembley
44:13 Mask Return and Mania
45:52 Poland Chaos and Critique
49:03 Headless Chickens Finale
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Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue on from last week’s episode with Jan Fjortoft to delve into how things went wrong for Graham Taylor during his time as England manager. In this first part of a three part series on Graham Taylor (following our episode with Fjortoft) we take a look at the high of Italia ’90 to the early warning signs of Graham Taylor’s troubled England reign, setting up the wider story of his eventual downfall. Central to the episode is Paul Gascoigne’s rise into “Gaza mania,” the off-field chaos and disciplinary problems that followed, including the 1991 FA Cup final knee rupture and subsequent setbacks. Taylor struggled to manage both the player and the circus around him. England qualified for Euro 1992 but drew twice, lost to Sweden and Taylor’s substitution of Gary Lineker became emblematic as tabloid ridicule culminate in a reputational collapse for Taylor.

01:05 The Impossible Job Era
07:39 Referees And Rotterdam
12:47 Italia 90 Reality Check
20:02 Gaza Mania Begins
25:31 Euro Qualifiers Begin
28:24 Ireland Away Selection
30:08 Taylor Press Tightrope
35:48 Cup Final Knee Rupture
41:46 Euro 92 Sweden Turning Point
42:55 Lineker Sub Controversy
47:50 Fitness Gap And Refuelling
49:32 Turnip Taylor Tabloid Sting
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Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Today co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by a very special returning guest - Jan Fjørtoft! In this episode, we will explore Norway’s remarkable rise in the early 1990s and their famous 2–0 win over Graham Taylor’s England in 1993. Fjørtoft explains how Egil “Drillo” Olsen took a previously struggling national team and built belief through a disciplined, direct style, carefully defined roles, and detailed match analysis using hand-written stats and video. The episode breaks down the key tactical choices that unsettled England, revisits both Norway goals, and follows the qualifier run that took Norway to their first World Cup since 1938. Norway will return to the World Cup this summer for the first time since 1998. This episode will be followed by a three part special on Graham Taylor.

01:12 Norway before the rise
04:09 Olsen arrives and stirs
06:47 Direct football philosophy
14:31 Stats and analysis
20:05 Defined roles and system
23:40 Beating England
28:12 Tactical switch
31:33 Gascoigne fitness factor
32:50 Olsen’s Selection Mind Games
37:20 Two Goals Breakdown
42:41 Road to USA 94 Sealed
45:45 Poland Night and Wild Celebrations
48:46 Heroes Welcome in Norway
52:04 World Cup Heat Prep Fiasco
59:59 Egil Olsen Legacy
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Today, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper take you back to the 1966 FIFA World Cup.
On home soil in England, the hosts claimed their first and only World Cup title. Captain Bobby Moore marshalled the side with composure, while Geoff Hurst rose to immortality with a historic hat-trick in the final. England’s triumph, sealed in a dramatic victory over West Germany, remains one of the most iconic moments in football history and the nations greatest footballing day.
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BONUS EDITIONS
Exclusive deep dives, specials & extended conversations from one-off specials to extra episodes that expand on our weekly free shows, you’ll get fresh, members-only content - including our “Bonus Editions” strand where Rob and Jonathan go deeper into football’s biggest stories and hidden histories.

WORLD CUP WEDNESDAYS!
Our countdown to 2026 - every tournament revisited Join Rob and Jonathan as they walk through every World Cup from 1930 to today, exploring the drama, evolution, legends, controversies and cultural impact of each tournament.

RETRO MAGAZINE COLLECTION
Flicking through the archives of classic football culture A nostalgic series diving into the pages of Shoot! and other retro football magazines - revisiting the stars, forgotten features, and football fandom of decades past.

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Your chance to ask two of football’s leading writers anything. Submit your questions about recent episodes, football history, their journalism, or upcoming projects — and hear their answers in our LIVE members-only Q&A.

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Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by an extraudinary guest - Clyde Best. An absolute pioneer to the game, born in Bermuda, Clyde would become one of the first black players in First Division football in England. His new film, ‘Transforming the Beautiful Game: The Clyde Best Story’ will be shown for a week at Sadler’s Wells East from 25th March.

In this episode, Clyde recounts arriving in England as a teenager, getting lost at West Ham station and being taken in by the Charles family. He reflects on his rise at West Ham, getting his debut against Arsenal under Ron Greenwood in 1969 and playing alongside the likes of Bobby Moore, Geoff Hurst and Martin Peters. Clyde talks of the his Bermuda upbringing, national team breakthrough and the influence that his father had on him. Best reflects on being one of the first prominent black players in English football, enduring racist abuse and an acid-attack threat and playing against Pelé. He also discusses NASL moves to Tampa Bay and Portland Timbers and the inspiration he provided players such as Ian Wright.

01:29 Lost at Heathrow
03:23 The Charles Family
06:59 Bermuda Beginnings
10:20 West Ham Dream
13:20 Ron Greenwood Impact
15:22 Fast Track Debut
18:35 Breaking Barriers
24:06 Facing Racism
31:03 Scoring Against Pelé
35:20 Leaving West Ham for the NASL
37:17 American Soccer Showmanship
43:01 Legacy as a Pioneer
46:57 Honorary Doctorate
49:44 His love for West Ham

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