On this episode of “The David Frum Show,” The Atlantic’s David Frum opens with his thoughts about the impending end to the government shutdown. David argues that the fight within the Democratic Party about ending the shutdown isn’t about the shutdown itself; rather, it’s about the future face of the party. David argues that now is a good moment to make a deal and that the Democrats have accomplished all they could hope to from the shutdown. He also cautions that allowing the left wing of the Democrats’ base to use any potential deal as a means to push the party down a more confrontational, more radical path must be avoided.
Then David is joined by The Bulwark’s Sarah Longwell. David and Sarah discuss the exit polls from this year’s elections and the current state of play within the American electorate. Sarah discusses how the increasing gender gap in voting patterns reflects a broader polarization between higher- and lower-information voters. Sarah also discusses how Donald Trump has upended everything we thought we knew about voting patterns and the uneasy position Republicans find themselves in once he’s off the ballot.
Finally, David closes with a talk about “The Emergency,” a new novel by The Atlantic’s George Packer.
Get more from your favorite Atlantic voices when you subscribe. You’ll enjoy unlimited access to Pulitzer-winning journalism, from clear-eyed analysis and insight on breaking news to fascinating explorations of our world. Atlantic subscribers also get access to exclusive subscriber audio in Apple Podcasts. Subscribe today at TheAtlantic.com/listener.
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1:02:34
America on the Brink of War With Venezuela
On this episode of The David Frum Show, The Atlantic’s David Frum opens with a warning about the coming Supreme Court battle over President Donald Trump’s use of tariff powers. If the Court endorses Trump’s claim that anything he deems an emergency allows him to impose tariffs, Frum argues that the United States will face a constitutional crisis unlike any before. The president will, in effect, have staged a “constitutional coup,” stripping Congress of its most fundamental Article I powers.
Then Frum speaks with Quico Toro of Caracas Chronicles about the Trump administration’s escalating pressure on Venezuela. They explore what American intervention might look like, the realities of Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro’s hold on control, and whether any foreign power could truly bring his rule to an end.
Finally, Frum closes with a reflection on Lion Feuchtwanger’s The Oppermanns and the rising tide of conspiracist anti-Semitism seen on both the left and the right today.
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1:02:09
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1:02:09
Would U.S. Generals Obey Illegal Trump Orders?
On this episode of The David Frum Show, The Atlantic’s David Frum opens with reflections on the new Trump administration’s pattern of “politicized stupidity”: the willful refusal to understand abuses of power, including the destruction of the White House’s East Wing and the perceived sale of government influence disguised as private donations.
Then Frum speaks with his Atlantic colleague Tom Nichols, an expert on civil-military relations and a longtime scholar of U.S. defense policy, about President Donald Trump’s efforts to turn the military into a personal instrument of power. Nichols explains how the capture of the Justice Department, the firing of Pentagon lawyers, and the use of the National Guard against civilians are eroding the rule of law, and how a president can launch wars without congressional consent.
Finally, Frum closes with a reflection on Eugène Ionesco’s play Rhinoceros, a parable about conformity and courage, and what it means to remain human in a world where everyone else is turning into beasts.
Get more from your favorite Atlantic voices when you subscribe. You’ll enjoy unlimited access to Pulitzer-winning journalism, from clear-eyed analysis and insight on breaking news to fascinating explorations of our world. Atlantic subscribers also get access to exclusive subscriber audio in Apple Podcasts. Subscribe today at TheAtlantic.com/listener.
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59:54
The Triumphs and Tragedies of the American Revolution
On this episode of The David Frum Show, The Atlantic’s David Frum opens with an urgent warning about TikTok’s looming sale to Donald Trump–aligned insiders—a move David calls the “biggest giveaway since the days of the railway grants.” He argues that the American media landscape has been quietly transformed, and political power has shifted from legacy outlets to algorithmic platforms loyal to the president.
Then David speaks with the filmmaker Ken Burns about his new documentary series on the American Revolution. Together, they explore the Revolution’s competing legacies—liberty and exclusion, heroism and hypocrisy—and how its unresolved contradictions still shape the nation’s identity. Burns reflects on the moral complexity of figures such as George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, the forgotten role of Loyalists and Indigenous nations, and the Revolution’s echoes in contemporary America.
Finally, David discusses Benjamin Nathans’s Pulitzer Prize–winning book, To the Success of Our Hopeless Cause, an exploration of the Soviet dissident movement and the story of Alexander Esenin-Volpin, who defied tyranny by insisting that Soviet laws be obeyed exactly as written.
Get more from your favorite Atlantic voices when you subscribe. You’ll enjoy unlimited access to Pulitzer-winning journalism, from clear-eyed analysis and insight on breaking news to fascinating explorations of our world. Atlantic subscribers also get access to exclusive subscriber audio in Apple Podcasts. Subscribe today at TheAtlantic.com/listener.
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1:02:41
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1:02:41
When Conservatism Meant Freedom
On this episode of The David Frum Show, The Atlantic’s David Frum opens with observations about the ongoing government shutdown, how it could be a strategic mistake for Republicans, and why this political standoff is best understood as a “quasi-election” about the rule of law itself.
Then Frum is joined by Lord Charles Moore, the authorized biographer of Margaret Thatcher, to mark the centenary of her birth. Together, they look back on Thatcher’s transformation of Britain, from nationalized stagnation to a revitalized free-market democracy, and her alliance with Ronald Reagan, which helped bring the Cold War to a close. Moore explains how Thatcher’s belief in “law-based liberty” and her defense of national sovereignty set her apart from both libertarians and nationalists, and why her example of disciplined, principled leadership feels more and more distant in the politics of today.
In the book segment, David discusses Stefan Zweig’s The World of Yesterday, and reflects on exile, despair, and why holding on to hope, rather than despair, matters when history suddenly turns dark.
Get more from your favorite Atlantic voices when you subscribe. You’ll enjoy unlimited access to Pulitzer-winning journalism, from clear-eyed analysis and insight on breaking news to fascinating explorations of our world. Atlantic subscribers also get access to exclusive subscriber audio in Apple Podcasts. Subscribe today at TheAtlantic.com/listener.
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To defend democracy, one has to believe in it. To believe in democracy, one has to understand it. Where it came from. How it works. What’s true. What’s not. What others did before you. How it could be better. How to make a difference.
Each week, The David Frum Show digs deep into the big questions people have about our society, explains the progress Americans have made together, and reminds us that the American idea is worth defending.
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