Zach Abramowitz is Legally Disrupted

Lawyers have been reaching out to me about breaking into legal tech for years. Now engineers at some of the biggest tech companies in the world are looking at Harvey too, and I think that's the clearest signal yet that professional services became a hot space to be in, and that just wasn't true a few years ago. Katie Burke spent nearly twelve years at HubSpot before betting on Winston, Gabe and Harvey. She explains why Harvey doesn't want lawyers running from Big Law, what makes someone stand out in an interview, and why top engineers suddenly want to work in legal. And yes, someone still tweets that Harvey is going to zero every six months.

In this episode:

0:00 Zach’s Hot Disruptive Legal Take
4:22 Why Katie Burke Left HubSpot for Harvey
8:48 Betting on Winston and Gabe in Their 20s
11:39 The “Harvey Is Going to Zero” Tweet Cycle
12:54 Is There Actually a Moat in Legal AI?
15:23 Is Harvey Only for Big Law Juniors?
18:01 Can Harvey Compete With the Frontier Models?
20:55 Harvey’s Killer Feature May Be Its SLAs
22:37 Why Top Engineers Suddenly Want to Work in Legal
25:40 How Many Harvey Employees Are Lawyers?
27:34 Who Works Harder: Big Law or Harvey?
30:18 Does Working at Harvey Burn People Out?
32:30 The #1 Way to Stand Out in a Harvey Interview
36:18 Where Harvey Is Hiring Right Now
38:00 The HubSpot Playbook at Harvey
39:50 Should You Even Make a Three-Year Plan?
41:18 Dharmesh Shaw Called It in 2023
42:30 You Don’t Need to Write Code to Use AI
45:08 Where to Find Open Roles at Harvey

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Follow Zach on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/zachabramowitz
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Follow Katie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katie-burke-965767a/

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Alex Su is one of those people I need to catch up with every now and then just to see what he's thinking. Since we recorded this, Alex was named President of Latitude Legal. He understands both the people selling lawyers on change and the lawyers they're trying to convince, and those two groups don't always see the same world. We get into Harvey, Legora and Claude, the billable hour, junior associates, where human judgment still matters, why trust may be part of Harvey's moat, and how both of us are using AI differently now than we were in 2023.

0:00 Zach's Hot Disruptive Legal Take
3:22 Harvey vs. Legora vs. Claude
5:58 Can Claude Gobble Up Harvey?
8:00 Why Haven't Junior Associates Been Replaced?
10:30 In-House Is Outpacing Law Firms on AI
12:49 Why Hasn't AI Killed the Billable Hour?
17:49 Why Hourly Rates Could Go Up
20:04 Is Anyone Less Busy Because of AI?
22:39 Where AI-Native Law Firms Could Win
24:28 If NDAs Are Never Litigated, Why Sign Them?
28:06 AI Made My Content More Human
31:11 How We Actually Use AI for Writing
38:28 How Many Lawyers Do You Need With AI?
40:22 When AI Gets Better, Trust Matters More
44:50 Has Harvey Built a Moat?
46:54 How Do You Compete With Harvey?
49:06 Is CLM Dead in the Water?

 

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Follow Alex: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexander-su

Engage Killer Whale Strategies: https://www.killerwhalestrategies.com

Legora just acquired Wexler, and I think it's the clearest signal yet that AI in law is moving from transactional work to litigation. Gregory Mostyn, co-founder and CEO of Wexler, built the company just to the right of discovery. Not doc review, what happens when the documents actually hit the lawyers. He explains why he bet on facts instead of documents, why he stayed a scalpel while Harvey and Legora built Swiss Army knives, and why a company that wasn't for sale sold anyway. I also pushed him on the two questions I get from lawyers every week. Are we in a bubble? And if the models are this good, why buy anything at all instead of building it yourself? His answer to the second one is the part I'd replay. And yes, the company is named after Kim Wexler.

In this episode:

00:00 - Zach’s Hot Disruptive Legal Take
07:33 - Already Seeing the Benefits of Joining Legora
08:26 - Wexler Is Just to the Right of eDiscovery
10:44 - The Atomic Unit of Analysis Is Facts
13:12 - Building a “Case Brain”
15:02 - Scalpel vs. Swiss Army Knife
17:21 - AI for Litigators
21:08 - Are We in an AI Bubble?
24:24 - Product Advice from an Old-School Judge
26:53 - Why Security and Accuracy Are More Important than Speed
28:59 - The Main User of Wexler Is the Wexler Agent
30:55 - Can You Run AI Live in a Deposition?
33:57 - Can Lawyers Build This Themselves?
38:46 - Story behind Legora’s Acquisition
43:50 - Getting in the Room Is the Hard Part
46:01 - Will AI Kill Relativity?
46:58 - Inspired by Kim Wexler from Better Call Saul

 

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Follow Gregory https://uk.linkedin.com/in/gregory-mostyn-9b3a89b8

Engage Killer Whale Strategies https://www.killerwhalestrategies.com

Richard Tromans of Artificial Lawyer is back with Zach and on the attack as they square up over whether massive Legal AI funding, truly signals systemic transformation. They then discuss whether these massive sums of money are hitting a tipping point and what could happen if the levee breaks. Maybe the legal industry is simply running in place. 

In this Episode:

00:00  Zach’s Hot Disruptive Legal Take
00:42  Could Harvey be Valued at $16B?
01:50   Legal AI Fatigue
03:20  Harvey, Legora and The Big Short?
08:46  Legal AI a Luxury Handbag Market?
10:31   AI Wizards and Muggles in Big Law 
13:35   The Seeds of Systemic AI Impact
21:36   Valuations Signal Technology is Essential In Legal Service Delivery
23:02   Jevons Paradox and the Volume of Modern Contracts
30:08   AI Still Needs Daycare
36:48   “New Mod” and “AI First” Firms are Pressuring Big Law
44:18   Is the Market Wrong on TR/Lexis
49:48   Are Chief AI Officers CINOs Differently Packaged?

 

Subscribe to Zach’s newsletter https://www.legallydisrupted.com/

Follow Zach on X https://x.com/ZachAbramowitz?lang=en

Engage Killer Whale Strategies https://www.killerwhalestrategies.com

Learn more about Richard - tromansconsulting.com, artificiallawyer.com 

Follow Richard - linkedin.com/in/artificiallawyer, https://x.com/ArtificialLawya

A 35-Year Big Law Veteran Is Doing the Best Work of His Career With AI But He Doesn’t Call His Firm AI-First. Brian Belt explains why Acevedo Belt is “judgment-first,” why he thinks legal AI is a bargain, and how AI is changing everything from junior-lawyer training to the kinds of matters a small firm can take on.

In this episode:

0:00      Zach's Hot Disruptive Legal Take
4:25      The Big Law Veteran Who Loves AI
6:21      "Harvey Writes Better Than I Do"
7:39      Why "ROI" Is the Wrong Metric
11:13     Clients Notice the Difference
13:47     You Can Finally Train Junior Associates
16:07     New Way to Train Associates
21:17     Scaling Up and Scaling Down
24:24     Why Harvey Is Better for Small Firms
28:46     Legal AI is a Bargain!
34:46     Process Mapping & the Best Use Cases
36:59     Why Not Just Use the Base Models?
37:54     Do Your Old Big Law Colleagues Get It?
40:32     What Is a "Judgment-First" Law Firm?
43:21     Do the Best Lawyers Run on No Sleep?

 

Subscribe to Zach’s newsletter: https://www.legallydisrupted.com/

Follow Zach on X: https://x.com/ZachAbramowitz?lang=en

Follow Brian on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianbelt

Engage Killer Whale Strategies: https://www.killerwhalestrategies.com