Artificiality: Minds Meeting Machines

• Blaise Aguera y Arcas and Michael Levin: The Computational Foundations of Life and Intelligence

  In this remarkable conversation, Michael Levin (Tufts University) and Blaise Aguera y Arcas (Google) examine what happens when biology and computation collide at their foundations. Their recent papers—arriving simultaneously yet from distinct intellectual traditions—illuminate how simple rules generate complex behaviors that challenge our understanding of life, intelligence, and agency.Michael’s "Self-Sorting Algorithm" reveals how minimal computational models demonstrate unexpected problem-solving abilities resembling basal intelligence—where just six lines of deterministic code exhibit dynamic adaptability we typically associate with living systems. Meanwhile, Blaise's "Computational Life" investigates how self-replicating programs emerge spontaneously from random interactions in digital environments, evolving complexity without explicit design or guidance.Their parallel explorations suggest a common thread: information processing underlies both biological and computational systems, forming an endless cycle where information → computation → agency → intelligence → information. This cyclical relationship transcends the traditional boundaries between natural and artificial systems.The conversation unfolds around several interwoven questions:- How does genuine agency emerge from simple rule-following components?- Why might intelligence be more fundamental than life itself?- How do we recognize cognition in systems that operate unlike human intelligence?- What constitutes the difference between patterns and the physical substrates expressing them?- How might symbiosis between humans and synthetic intelligence reshape both?Perhaps most striking is their shared insight that we may already be surrounded by forms of intelligence we're fundamentally blind to—our inherent biases limiting our ability to recognize cognition that doesn't mirror our own. As Michael notes, "We have a lot of mind blindness based on our evolutionary firmware."The timing of their complementary work isn't mere coincidence but reflects a cultural inflection point where our understanding of intelligence is expanding beyond anthropocentric models. Their dialogue offers a conceptual framework for navigating a future where the boundaries between biological and synthetic intelligence continue to dissolve, not as opposing forces but as variations on a universal principle of information processing across different substrates.For anyone interested in the philosophical and practical implications of emergent intelligence—whether in cells, code, or consciousness—this conversation provides intellectual tools for understanding the transformed relationship between humans and technology that lies ahead.------Do you enjoy our conversations like this one? Then subscribe on your favorite platform, subscribe to our emails (free) at Artificiality.world, and check out the Artificiality Summit—our mind-expanding retreat in Bend, Oregon at Artificiality.world/summit.Thanks again to Jonathan Coulton for our music.

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• Maggie Jackson: Embracing Uncertainty

  In this episode, we welcome Maggie Jackson, whose latest book, Uncertain, has become essential reading for navigating today’s complex world. Known for her groundbreaking work on attention and distraction, Maggie now turns her focus to uncertainty—not as a problem to be solved, but as a skill to be cultivated. Note: Uncertain won an Artificiality Book Award in 2024—check out our review here: https://www.artificiality.world/artificiality-book-awards-2024/In the interview, we explore the neuroscience of uncertainty, the cultural biases that make us crave certainty, and why our discomfort with the unknown may be holding us back. Maggie unpacks the two core types of uncertainty—what we can’t know and what we don’t yet know—and explains why understanding this distinction is crucial for thinking well in the digital age.Our conversation also explores the implications of AI—as technology increasingly mediates our reality, how do we remain critical thinkers? How do we resist the illusion of certainty in a world of algorithmically generated answersMaggie’s insights challenge us to reframe uncertainty—not as fear, but as an opportunity for discovery, adaptability, and even creativity. If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by ambiguity or pressured to always have the “right” answer, this episode offers a refreshing perspective on why being uncertain might be one of our greatest human strengths.Links:Maggie: https://www.maggie-jackson.com/Uncertain: https://www.prometheusbooks.com/9781633889194/uncertain/Do you enjoy our conversations like this one? Then subscribe on your favorite platform, subscribe to our emails (free) at Artificiality.world, and check out the Artificiality Summit—our mind-expanding retreat in Bend, Oregon at Artificiality.world/summit.Thanks again to Jonathan Coulton for our music.

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• Greg Epstein: Tech Agnostic

  In this episode, we talk with Greg Epstein—humanist chaplain at Harvard and MIT, bestselling author, and a leading voice on the intersection of technology, ethics, and belief systems. Greg’s latest book, Tech Agnostic, offers a provocative argument: Silicon Valley isn’t just a powerful industry—it has become the dominant religion of our time. Note: Tech Agnostic won an Artificality Book Award in 2024—check out our review here. In this interview, we explore the deep parallels between big tech and organized religion, from sacred texts and prophets to digital congregations and AI-driven eschatology. The conversation explores digital Puritanism, the "unwitting worshipers" of tech's altars, and the theological implications of AI doomerism.But this isn’t just a critique—it’s a call for a Reformation. Greg lays out a path toward a more humane and ethical future for technology, one that resists unchecked power and prioritizes human values over digital dogma.Join us for a thought-provoking conversation on faith, fear, and the future of being human in an age where technology defines what we believe in.Do you enjoy our conversations like this one? Then subscribe on your favorite platform, subscribe to our emails (free) at Artificiality.world, and check out the Artificiality Summit—our mind-expanding retreat in Bend, Oregon at Artificiality.world/summit.Thanks again to Jonathan Coulton for our music.

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• Chris Messina: Reimagining AI

  In this episode, we sit down with the ever-innovative Chris Messina—creator of the hashtag, top product hunter on Product Hunt, and trusted advisor to startups navigating product development and market strategy.Recording from Ciel Media’s new studio in Berkeley, we explore the evolving landscape of generative AI and the widening gap between its immense potential and real-world usability. Chris introduces a compelling framework, distinguishing AI as a *tool* versus a *medium*, which helps explain the stark divide in how different users engage with these technologies.Our conversation examines key challenges: How do we build trust in AI? Why is transparency in computational reasoning critical? And how might community collaboration shape the next generation of AI products? Drawing from his deep experience in social media and emerging tech, Chris offers striking parallels between early internet adoption and today’s AI revolution, suggesting that meaningful integration will require both time and a generational shift in thinking.What makes this discussion particularly valuable is Chris’s vision for the future of AI interaction—where technology moves beyond query-response models to become a truly collaborative medium, transforming how we create, problem-solve, and communicate.Links:Chris: https://chrismessina.meCiel Media: https://cielcreativespace.com

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• D. Graham Burnett: Attention and much more...

  D. Graham Burnett will tell you his day job is as a professor of science history at Princeton University. He is also co-founder of the Strother School of Radical Attention and has been associated with the Friends of Attention since 2018. But none of those positions adequately describe Graham.His bio says that he “works at the intersection of historical inquiry and artistic practice.” He writes, he performs, he makes things. He describes himself as an attention activist. Perhaps most importantly for us, Graham helps you see the world differently—and more clearly. Graham has powerful views on the effect of technology on our attention. We often riff on his idea that technology has fracked our attention into little commoditizable bits. His work has highly influenced our concern about what might happen if the same extractive practices of the attention economy are applied to the future AI-powered intimacy economy. We were thrilled to have Graham on the pod for a wide ranging conversation about attention, intimacy, and much more. Links:https://dgrahamburnett.nethttps://www.schoolofattention.orghttps://www.friendsofattention.net---If you enjoy our podcasts, please subscribe and leave a positive rating or comment. Sharing your positive feedback helps us reach more people and connect them with the world’s great minds.Subscribe to get Artificiality delivered to your email: https://www.artificiality.worldThanks to Jonathan Coulton for our music.

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