Bankless

NEAR keeps showing up in strange places: cross-chain wallets, privacy apps, AI infrastructure, and now the emerging agent economy. Sal Ternullo, CEO of SVRN, joins us to explain why he thinks this is not another NEAR pivot, but the original thesis finally coming into focus. They dig into NEAR Intents, AI money, tokenomics, privacy, fee capture, agentic commerce, and why SVRN is trying to commercialize the NEAR ecosystem rather than simply hold the asset.

---

🧭OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDE
https://bankless.cc/OKXapp

---
BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:

🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKET
https://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast

🟦 COINBASE ONE | MEMBER MONTH
https://bankless.cc/coinbase-one

🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDE
https://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS

🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOW
https://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download

🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELD
https://bankless.cc/brix

🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS
https://thedefireport.io/bankless

---
TIMESTAMPS

0:00 Intro
2:23 Why NEAR Keeps Showing Up
3:58 Pivot or Return to Roots?
7:41 The “AI Money” Thesis
9:54 Intents, Zashi, and Real Product Market Fit
11:38 Tokenomics, Buybacks, and Value Accrual
14:45 NEAR’s Different Approach From Ethereum
18:00 Fees, Scaling, and First-Party Apps
23:04 Cross-Chain Liquidity as NEAR’s Moat
28:27 The Contrarian Investor Case for NEAR
31:43 Privacy, Enterprises, and AI Agents
39:38 What SVRN Is Building for NEAR
46:00 Investor Sentiment and Final Thoughts

---
RESOURCES

Sal Ternullo
https://x.com/sal_ternullo

SVRN
https://x.com/svrn_ai

---
Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:
https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

The internet is about to be flooded by machines, and Matthew Prince thinks the old business model is not ready. The Cloudflare co-founder and CEO joins Bankless to explain why AI agent traffic could overtake human traffic by 2027, how crawlers are changing the economics of content, why ads and subscriptions may not survive in their current form, and how x402, stablecoins, and pay-per-crawl could create a new payment layer for the web.

---

📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24
https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium

---
BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:

🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKET
https://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast

🟦 COINBASE ONE | MEMBER MONTH
https://bankless.cc/coinbase-one

🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDE
https://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS

🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOW
https://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download

🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELD
https://bankless.cc/brix

🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS
https://thedefireport.io/bankless

---
TIMESTAMPS

0:00 Intro
1:18 When AI Bot Traffic Overtakes Humans
4:19 What Cloudflare Actually Does
10:40 Life on the Internet’s “Ice Wall”
13:33 The Internet’s Business Model Problem
17:43 Google, Traffic, and the Attention Economy
24:56 AI Agents and the End of Ads
28:47 Why Faster Answers Can Still Hurt Creators
33:26 AI Companies as the Next YouTube or Netflix
38:18 Creating Scarcity for Content Markets
41:52 Content Independence Day
45:24 Should AI Agents Count as Human Users?
51:37 The Risks of Subscription-Only AI
57:24 A Golden Age of Content Creation?
1:01:46 Pay-Per-Crawl and x402
1:04:34 Why Stablecoins Matter
1:07:56 The Cloudflare Stablecoin Question
1:14:18 The Final Form of the Internet
1:17:40 The Park Record and Local Journalism
1:22:16 The Centralization Risk
1:27:12 Advice for Content Creators

---
RESOURCES

Matthew Prince
https://x.com/eastdakota

---
Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:
https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Crypto’s old leaders are struggling, but new winners are breaking out. Ryan and David unpack the rise of HYPE, Zcash, and Venice, the macro bear fuel markets are ignoring, the EF talent exodus, and why David selling his last ETH may mark a new era for Ethereum and Bankless.

---

📣METAMASK | $100,000 ONDO GM CHALLENGE

https://bankless.cc/OndoOnMetaMask 

---

BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:

🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKET

https://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast

🟦 COINBASE ONE | MEMBER MONTH

https://bankless.cc/coinbase-one

🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDE

https://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS

🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOW

https://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download

🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELD

https://bankless.cc/brix

---

TIMESTAMPS & RESOURCES

0:00 Intro

3:28 Bear Fuel for Markets & Pockets of Bullishness in Crypto

https://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/2056184339390419205

https://x.com/Barchart/status/2056350919139500364

https://x.com/JesseCohenInv/status/2056297490366837184

https://imgur.com/YqnyoBc

https://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/2056556783221502060

https://polymarket.com/event/how-many-fed-rate-cuts-in-2026

https://thedefireport.io/research/signs-of-a-cycle-bottom#macro-update

https://www.cnbc.com/2026/05/21/iran-war-us-peace-talks-trump-hormuz.html

https://polymarket.com/event/us-x-iran-permanent-peace-deal-by

21:27 Hyperliquid, HYPE, and Pre-IPO Price Discovery

https://x.com/Matt_Hougan/status/2056720926234882533

https://polymarket.com/event/openai-ipo-closing-market-cap

https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2026/05/20/elon-musk-s-spacex-holds-18-712-bitcoin-at-fair-value-of-usd1-29-billion-ipo-filing-shows

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/sec-readies-plan-trading-crypto-versions-stocks-bloomberg-news-reports-2026-05-18/

https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2026/05/21/binance-launches-spacex-pre-ipo-perps

32:43 Wintermute Opens DeFi Vaults on Morpho

https://www.wintermute.com/insights/news/wintermute-launches-armitage-bringing-its-defi-and-trading-expertise-to-vault-curation

https://x.com/wintermute_t/status/2056722776241902065

https://bitwiseinvestments.com/newsroom/bitwise-expands-onchain-solutions-with-introduction-of-non-custodial-vault

38:12  Trump’s Quantum Bets and U.S. Industrial Policy & Blockchain.com IPO and Ronin Migrates to Ethereum L2

https://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/2057431484915454235

https://www.theblock.co/post/402182/blockchain-com-confidentially-files-for-us-ipo-as-crypto-firms-continue-public-market-push

https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2026/05/11/ronin-set-to-transition-to-ethereum-layer-2-from-independent-sidechain

46:34 EF Exodus and Ethereum’s Identity Crisis

https://x.com/TrustlessState/status/2056383261648015443

https://x.com/drjasper_eth/status/2056405742769377490/photo/1

https://x.com/tkstanczak/status/2022315368430067847

https://x.com/0xstark/status/2044757694389670239

https://x.com/trent_vanepps/status/2044412517313556786

https://x.com/barnabemonnot/status/2053914533211558331

https://x.com/TimBeiko/status/2050570831491645874

https://blog.ethereum.org/2026/05/11/protocol-update-may-26

https://x.com/CarlBeek/status/2056379557889143042

https://x.com/_julianma/status/2056391635731128763

https://x.com/DefiIgnas/status/2056403039968174208

https://www.theblock.co/post/395541/miladys-loyalty-pledge-unnecessary-culture-schism-ethereum-community

https://x.com/josephdelong/status/2019116049694880021

https://x.com/dankrad/status/2057441946616930799

https://x.com/ETH_Daily/status/2056549932455330020

https://x.com/wmougayar/status/2047274807230611805

1:00:04 David Sold His ETH and a New Era for Bankless

https://x.com/TrustlessState/status/2057183150816583834

https://x.com/RyanSAdams/status/2057216981368221776

1:10:00 Moment of Zen

https://x.com/ethcforg/status/2057474005913792654 

---

Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:

https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Bitcoin may be outgrowing the “digital gold” narrative. David sits down with Strive Chief Risk Officer Jeff Walton to unpack how Bitcoin-backed credit products like SATA and Strategy’s STRETCH could turn BTC into digital capital, why Jeff says the “Ponzi” framing misunderstands the balance sheet, how 13% yield and daily dividends could disrupt credit markets, and why this new financial layer may expand Bitcoin’s TAM far beyond gold.

---

📣OKX | THE NEW MONEY APP

https://bankless.cc/OKXapp

---

BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:

🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKET

https://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast

🟦 COINBASE ONE | MEMBER MONTH

https://bankless.cc/coinbase-one

🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDE

https://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS

🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOW

https://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download

🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELD

https://bankless.cc/brix

💰NEXO | Get your 30-day access to Wealth Club Premier

https://bankless.cc/nexo

---

TIMESTAMPS

0:00 Intro

1:59 Stretch, Risk, and Balance Sheets

5:28 Dividend Backstop Debate

8:53 Measuring Bitcoin Downside

15:25 Success as Long-Tail Risk

19:17 Common Equity as Revenue

25:57 Digital Credit’s Massive Market

29:37 Credit, Liquidity, and Yield

33:02 Banks, Trust, and Inflation

36:08 Trust Networks Rebuilt

40:26 Digital Labor and Yield

44:38 Bitcoin’s Growing Capital Base

48:36 S-Curve and Market Size

52:36 Building on Bitcoin Instruments

55:58 Transforming the Asset

59:12 Co-opetition in Bitcoin Credit

1:03:23 Low Vol for Long Holders

1:09:13 Strive Versus Strategy

1:12:38 Scaling Faster Than Strategy

1:14:38 Jeff’s Bitcoin Origin Story

1:17:30 Closing & Disclaimers

---

RESOURCES

Jeff Walton

https://x.com/PunterJeff

True North Show

https://www.youtube.com/@BTCTrueNorth

Jeff’s Coffeezilla Interview

https://youtu.be/pvZnpppwkoM?si=lXcF6r02yzmYE9jt

---

Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:

https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Zcash is having its first real narrative moment in years. David sits down with Multicoin Capital co-founder Tushar Jain and Mert Mumtaz to unpack why privacy may be crypto’s missing store-of-value primitive, why Zcash is being framed as “private Bitcoin,” how institutional adoption could normalize shielded money, what AI and onchain surveillance change about the privacy debate, and why quantum risk could become a real catalyst.

---
📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24
https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium

---
BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:

🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKET
https://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast

🟦 COINBASE ONE | MEMBER MONTH
https://bankless.cc/coinbase-one

🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDE
https://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS

🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOW
https://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download

🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELD
https://bankless.cc/brix

💰NEXO | Get your 30-day access to Wealth Club Premier
https://bankless.cc/nexo

---
TIMESTAMPS

0:00 Why Multicoin Got Interested in Zcash
5:22 Mert’s Path from Solana to Zcash
9:57 Why Zcash, Why Now?
17:01 The Institutional Path for Private Money
22:03 Zcash as a Private Store of Value
25:27 Fungibility, Tainted Coins, and Financial History
27:26 The Bear Case: Does Anyone Really Care About Privacy?
34:43 Onchain Surveillance and Government Power
39:13 Zcash Tokenomics and the Forgotten Coin Thesis
44:58 The Last PVE in Crypto
50:17 Zcash and the Quantum Threat
59:14 Shielded Pool Growth and Upcoming Catalysts

---
RESOURCES

Tushar Jain
https://x.com/tushar_jain

Mert Mumtaz
https://x.com/mert

---
Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:
https://www.bankless.com/disclosures