The Peel with Turner Novak

• Samsara’s Journey to $26B Public Company | Sanjit Biswas, Co-founder and CEO

  Sanjit Biswas is the Co-founder and CEO of Samsara, the fleet management and safety platform.At the time of publication, Samsara is a public company worth over $26 billion, and we unpack how exactly they went from zero to run rating at over $1.5 billion in revenue in ten years.We get into using AI to impact the physical world, how Samsara uses AI internally, and how their products prevent over 200,000 deaths per year.Sanjit has built two unicorns, and he shares everything he’s learned along the way, including what most founders and investors get wrong about hardware, thinking customer-first instead of product-first, how to know when you have product market fit, mastering sales as a technical founder, and how to spend more time with your customers.We also talk about getting his high school online in the 90’s, and the research project that turned into Sanjit’s first company, Meraki, and its $1.2 billion dollar sale to Cisco in 2012.Thanks to Bolt for supporting this episode. Help them break a world record for the largest hackathon (up to $1m in prizes): https://bit.ly/ThePeelBoltHackathonTimestamps:(4:26) Samsara: Helping the world of physical operations(8:44) Preventing 200,000 deaths per year(11:19) AI opportunities in transportation(14:43) Samsara’s internal AI tools(16:58) What people get wrong when building hardware(19:04) Starting Samsara customer-first instead of product-first(22:23) Find adjacent products for your customers(26:28) How to know you have product market fit(34:52) How to spend more time with customers and build feedback loops(43:00) 70-20-10 framework for allocating capital(45:07) Importance of selling new products to existing customers(49:15) Revisiting the product roadmap based on new technology(50:38) Why Sanjit credits focus to hitting $1B revenue in nine years(53:41) Learning to love sales as a technical founder(57:06) Getting his high school online in the 90’s(1:01:46) The research project that turned into Sanjit’s first company, Meraki(1:04:01) Importance of asymmetric risk when starting a company(1:05:41) Early days of Meraki taking off(1:09:19) Surviving and doubling during the financial crisis(1:16:00) Cisco acquiring Meraki for $1.2B(1:18:15) Meraki’s post-acquisition integration(1:20:48) Differences between 1st and 2nd company(1:24:19) Almost starting an renewable energy company(1:25:52) The power of small teams(1:28:49) One-shotting Bill Gates’ biography at 10-years oldReferencedSamsara: https://samsara.com/Meraki: https://meraki.cisco.com/Arduino: https://www.arduino.cc/Raspberry Pi: https://www.raspberrypi.com/Hard Drive: Bill Gates and the Making of the Microsoft Empire: https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Drive-Making-Microsoft-Empire/dp/0887306292No Priors Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@NoPriorsPodcastFollow SanjitLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sanjitbiswas/Follow TurnerTwitter: https://twitter.com/TurnerNovakLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/turnernovakSubscribe to my newsletter to get every episode + the transcript in your inbox every week: https://www.thespl.it/

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• Michael Kim @ Cendana | Lessons from the Top VCs, How Cendana Does Diligence, Portfolio Construction Best Practices, the 60x Rule, How Seed Funds Compete vs Multi-stage, Inside Cendana's Early Days

  Michael Kim is the Founder of Cendana Capital, a fund of funds that makes anchor investments in very early stage VC funds.We talk characteristics of the best investors, how Cendana does diligence on fund managers, portfolio construction best practices, Michael’s “60x rule”, and why high ownership to fund size is the main driver of returns.We also get in to how VCs are using AI, the competition between Seed and multi-stage investors, why US endowments are under siege, and how secondaries are driving most early stage venture returns today.Michael also opens up about the early days of starting Cendana, the 18 month grind raising Cendana Fund 1, the day he almost died, and ranking in the top 2% globally in Call of Duty.Special thanks to Roger Ehrenberg, Kevin Hartz, Semil Shah, Jeff Claviar, Beezer Clarkson, Jack Altman, Jeff Morris Jr, Sheel Mohnot, Nichole Wischoff, Ted Alling, and Rick Zullo for their help putting this episode together.Thanks to Bolt for supporting this episode. Help them break a world record for the largest hackathon (up to $1m in prizes): https://bit.ly/ThePeelBoltHackathonTimestamps:(4:24) The day Michael almost died(5:10) Call of Duty & video games(9:34) Hiring @ Cendana(10:31) How Cendana uses structured and unstructured data(16:51) How VCs are using AI(19:55) Why secondaries are driving most early stage venture returns(22:01) Deciding when to sell secondaries(24:28) Best performing venture funds ever(27:26) The best VCs have amazing access to the best founders(33:42) Why Cendana backs Solo GPs(35:57) How to invest over time and hype cycles(41:35) Why multi-stage firms are investing earlier(44:45) Cendana’s current thesis: High ownership % to fund size(45:51) Why Cendana started backing non-lead VCs(48:41) How Cendana does diligence on fund managers(52:22) VC NPS Scores and Ron Conway’s Silver Bullet(53:49) Good vs bad new VC firm strategies(56:36) Determining defensibility of a strategy(57:57) “Messy middle” software buyout fund(1:03:25) Portfolio construction best practice(1:08:11) Michael’s 60x Rule(1:14:28) How Seed funds compete with multi-stage funds(1:20:05) Should you collect logos writing small checks?(1:21:07) Becoming an LP for the city of SF(1:24:42) Taking 18+ months to raise Cendana Fund 1 in the GFC(1:26:48) Warehousing the first Cendana Fund 1 investments(1:29:56) How to do a first close(1:34:29) Why it’s hard to kill a VC firm(1:37:00) What happens to ZIRP tourist fund managers(1:40:22) How to raise a Fund 2 or 3 today(1:42:07) “US endowments are under siege”(1:44:55) What the best GP LP relationships look like(1:46:41) What Fund of Funds get wrong(1:50:43) The three most interesting trends in venture todayReferencedCheck out Cendana https://www.cendanacapital.com/Deep Checks https://www.deepchecks.vc/Prior episode with Eric at Bolt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q6n1vqUrF4Follow MichaelTwitter: https://x.com/MKRocksLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-kim-cendana-capital/Follow TurnerTwitter: https://twitter.com/TurnerNovakLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/turnernovakSubscribe to my newsletter to get every episode + the transcript in your inbox every week: https://www.thespl.it/

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  1:54:58
• How AI Changes Governments & Business Models, From $11 to $187M Exit | Mike Vichich, Pursuit

  Mike Vichich is the Co-founder and CEO of Pursuit, which helps companies generate more revenue from the public sector.We talk about how AI is changing Helmer’s 7 Powers, how it’s impacting the government, if DOGE is actually working, building a startup in the Midwest, and how to disagree with your team.We also get into Mike’s prior company Wisely, and how they went from $11 in the bank account and unable to pay payroll for six months, to over $10 million ARR and a $187 million exit to Olo, a public company.Thanks to Jack Altman and Blake Robbins for their help brainstorming topics for Mike!Timestamps:(3:21) How AI changes Helmer’s 7 Powers(17:06) What becomes important in AI-first economy(21:02) How AI interfaces with the government(24:02) “The rules intended to save taxpayer money ironically cause taxpayer money to be wasted”(29:34) How change orders impact public sector costs(33:20) Why DOGE has not impacted US government spending yet(38:15) Three pieces of wisdom from 2nd-time founders(41:44) Starting Pursuit to make selling to the public sector as easy as the private sector(45:35) Why cities grow expenses 5x faster than tax revenue(51:42) Pros + Cons of building startups in Ann Arbor, MI(57:43) Hiring talent density in the Midwest(59:30) Starting his first company to fix consumer credit cards(1:08:50) Pivoting Wisely to restaurant loyalty(1:12:49) $11 in the bank, missing payroll for six months(1:15:21) Embarrassing demo at an Ann Arbor tech meetup(1:18:18) Why CEOs don’t always have to be right(1:20:54) How to disagree(1:25:48) Hiring at Pursuit(1:28:30) “A bad day with customers is better than the best day in the office”(1:31:33) Crashing their first customer’s PoS on Labor Day Weekend(1:35:55) Using “The Cadence” to hit $10M ARR(1:41:55) Selling Wisely to Olo for $187MReferencedCheck out Pursuit: https://www.pursuit.us/The Four Steps to the Epiphany by Steve Blank: https://www.amazon.com/Four-Steps-Epiphany-Steve-Blank/dp/0989200507Ann Arbor New Tech Meetup: https://www.meetup.com/a2newtech/How to Disagree: https://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.htmlThe Cadence by David Sacks: https://sacks.substack.com/p/the-cadence-how-to-operate-a-saas-startup-436aa8099e8Follow MikeTwitter: https://x.com/mikevichichLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikevichichFollow TurnerTwitter: https://twitter.com/TurnerNovakLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/turnernovakSubscribe to my newsletter to get every episode + the transcript in your inbox every week: https://www.thespl.it/

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• Ultimate Startup Growth Playbook, Using AI to Automate Operations | Sam Ross, Numeral

  Sam Ross is the Co-founder and CEO of Numeral.This conversation is a master class on all things growth at the zero to one stage. We talk early growth lessons from Airbnb, and stories from being one of the largest, earliest Facebook advertisers.We get into working backwards from pockets of strong demand to find business ideas, how to establish early social proof around your product, why you shouldn’t hire a growth person as your first growth hire, how he raised Numeral’s Series A in four days, and why sales tax is so complicated and how they’re using AI to make it easy.Timestamps:(3:03) Why sales tax is so complicated(8:06) Running crazy Facebook ads in 2013(11:58) Why you need to be aggressive on new growth channels(16:55) How strong retention unlocks massive businesses (18:24) Using pockets of demand to find business ideas(21:34) Balancing performance vs brand marketing(25:45) How to build a brand from scratch(29:11) When cold outbound actually works(36:18) Building early social proof around your product(43:33) Don’t hire career growth people for growth roles(49:31) Lessons building a jewelry business doing $30m in revenue(58:44) How the 2018 Wayfair v South Dakota decision led to Numeral(1:05:04) Hacking an early product together with spreadsheets(1:07:32) Automating the product(1:15:26) What happens if you don’t pay sales tax(1:20:41) How Numeral uses AI and LLMs internally(1:26:41) How to compete against non-technical incumbents(1:32:57) Why they raised VC for Numeral(1:38:19) Raising a Series A in four days(1:45:43) How big can a sales tax company really be?(1:48:55) Creating a better global tax system(1:54:31) How San Francisco is losing its soulReferencedCheck out Numeral: https://www.numeralhq.com/South Dakota v Wayfair: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Dakota_v._Wayfair,_Inc.Follow SamTwitter: https://x.com/SpamRossLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sambross/Follow TurnerTwitter: https://twitter.com/TurnerNovakLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/turnernovakSubscribe to my newsletter to get every episode + the transcript in your inbox every week: https://www.thespl.it/

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  2:01:12
• Scaling Amplitude to $300M ARR with Co-founder and CEO Spenser Skates

  Spenser Skates is the Co-founder and CEO of Amplitude.Our conversation gets into the importance of data in product design and company building, how Amplitude is thinking about AI, and the future of user responsive software.We also get into the early days of building Amplitude, when to go multi-product, how to construct your board as a startup, hiring executives at various company stages, lessons from closing three acquisitions, lessons scaling to $300 million in ARR, inside Amplitude’s 2021 IPO, and what most people get wrong about Founder Mode.Thanks to Numeral for supporting this episode, the end-to-end platform for sales tax and compliance. Try it here: https://bit.ly/NumeralThePeelTimestamps:(4:45) Using data to build great products(8:31) Why data is existential to every business(13:14) How to go multi-product(15:48) Every startup becomes a distribution company(19:29) Lessons from three acquisitions(29:09) AI hasn’t changed B2B SaaS yet(31:24) Challenges of incorporating AI in B2B SaaS(33:09) Amplitude’s AI experiments(36:29) Navigating technology hype cycles as a public company(39:40) Amplitude’s opportunity in LLMs(43:08) User responsive software(46:16) Surprising things that slow your speed of execution(51:27) What people get wrong about Founder Mode(59:48) Pivoting into Amplitude after YC(1:04:42) Nine months to raise Amplitude’s first round(1:08:31) Surprises from closing the first customers(1:12:46) Two sales lessons for technical founders(1:13:44) Scaling to $300M+ ARR(1:17:14) How to choose board members(1:19:55) Inside Amplitude’s IPO(1:21:56) “Stock price is an output of the business”(1:26:36) Evolving from startup founder to public company CEO(1:31:54) How hiring execs changes as you scale(1:34:32) Why DEI is important at Amplitude(1:39:46) Relevance of gaming and startupsReferencedTry Amplitude: https://amplitude.com/Careers at Amplitude: https://amplitude.com/careersMoxie Marlinspike’s web3 article:https://moxie.org/2022/01/07/web3-first-impressions.htmlSheep Logic: https://www.epsilontheory.com/sheep-logic/Follow SpenserTwitter: https://x.com/spenserskatesLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/spenserskatesFollow TurnerTwitter: https://twitter.com/TurnerNovakLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/turnernovakSubscribe to my newsletter to get every episode + the transcript in your inbox every week: https://www.thespl.it/

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  1:44:04

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