What Bitcoin Did

“The company that I co-founded and wanted to build and the company Twenty One was becoming were no longer the same.”

Jack Mallers is back on the show for his first interview since stepping down as CEO of Twenty One Capital.

Jack explains why he walked away from the Bitcoin treasury company he built with Tether and took public on the New York Stock Exchange. We discuss where his vision began to diverge from the board’s, why merging Strike into Twenty One was never part of the original plan, and the expectations he regrets setting.

We also get into the AI capex bubble and why he thinks it will end in money printing, whether the Magnificent Seven are becoming too big to fail, why gold ran while Bitcoin didn’t, whether China is quietly mining Bitcoin, and why Jack believes Bitcoin’s next bull market will finally be a real one.

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“We don’t need a new narrative. We just need to buy the bear, turn it around and smash it.”

Cory Klippsten is back on the show to explain why Bitcoin’s last bull market failed to deliver, why institutional adoption created weak hands rather than conviction, and why the next major move depends on bringing a new wave of people into Bitcoin.

In this episode, we discuss Swan’s campaign to bring the energy back to Bitcoin, the return of Café Bitcoin, 50 Days for Freedom and lower buying fees. Cory explains why ETFs made Bitcoin easier to buy but also easier to sell, why real on-chain holders ultimately set the floor, and why he believes the bear market may be close to its end.

We also get into Bitcoin’s adoption problem, the battle for monetary independence, why altcoins have lost the fight to become money, and the risks of Bitcoin treasury companies and leveraged Bitcoin equities.

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“Bear markets are actually more about survival.”

Matt Odell is back on the show to explain why Bitcoin bear markets grind people down, why the fundamentals have not changed, and why he has never been more bullish on Bitcoin.

In this episode, we discuss Jack Mallers stepping down from XXI, the risks of Bitcoin treasury companies, and why profitable businesses should save in Bitcoin rather than make financial engineering the product.

We also get into Nostr’s failure to replace X, the continued need for open identity and private communications, and how open-source AI could make Bitcoin easier to use. Matt explains why AI agents will need permissionless money, why Lightning matters for privacy, and why strong families and local communities will become more important in an increasingly centralised world.

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“Cycles have no respect for trends.”

Michael Howell is on the show to explain why global liquidity, not Bitcoin’s four-year cycle, is the force driving Bitcoin, gold and global markets.

Michael argues that the liquidity cycle has already peaked and may not bottom until the second half of 2027. He warns that tighter liquidity could create further downside before the next major monetary expansion begins.

We get into the five-to-six-year debt refinancing cycle, why central banks are ultimately forced to keep supplying liquidity, China’s influence on the gold market, the growing debt maturity wall, and why the “great debasement” of Western currencies may still lie ahead.

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"Bitcoin treasury companies are not the equivalent of altcoins, but there’s a very similar lesson that has to be learned: they’re a great way to get less Bitcoin."

Parker Lewis is back on the show to explain why Bitcoin treasury companies such as Strategy (MSTR) may underperform Bitcoin, and why the digital capital narrative gets Bitcoin wrong.

Parker argues that investors buying treasury company stocks are often paying a premium to take on more risk: leverage, dilution, corporate expenses, execution risk, counterparty exposure and potential tax drag. While the company may accumulate more Bitcoin, he explains why that does not necessarily mean its shareholders are getting more Bitcoin for their money.

We also get into Michael Saylor’s changing message, the difference between Bitcoin as money and “digital capital,” and why Bitcoin payments are essential to its long-term success.

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