CHAOSScast

• Episode 121: Package Metadata Working Group with Andrew Nesbitt and Damián Vicino

  Thank you to the folks at Sustain (https://sustainoss.org/) for providing the hosting account for CHAOSSCast! CHAOSScast – Episode 121 In this episode of the CHAOSScast, host Alice Sowerby sits down with Andrew Nesbitt and Damián Vicino to discuss the formation and objectives of the new Package Metadata Working Group within the CHAOSS community. They discuss the complex issues surrounding package manager metadata, its interoperability challenges, and how the working group aims to address these through mapping and standardization efforts. They also touch upon the importance of these efforts for various stakeholders, including developers, researchers, and tool builders. The conversation highlights both the immediate and long-term goals of the group and provides information on how interested individuals can get involved. Hit download now to hear more! [00:00:26] Introductions from Alice, Andrew, and Damián. [00:02:36] Damián explains how the Package Metadata Working Group started. [00:04:33] Andrew shares his experience building mappings across multiple package registries and how differing field names, schema structures, and metadata definitions complicate consistency. [00:10:21] Alice asks about the group’s short and long term objectives and Andrew outlines some immediate goals. [00:14:52] Damián elaborates on challenges in semantics and timelines. He emphasizes that even identically names fields may carry different meanings and shares an example. [00:18:46] Alice summarizes Damián’s point saying the group’s role is to provide guidance and analysis rather than enforce standards, helping maintainers make informed metadata decisions. [00:19:25] Andrew adds that most package managers evolve independently without referencing past ones. The working group’s documentation aims to prevent repeated mistakes and guide new ecosystems toward interoperable designs. [00:23:06] Damián notes that modern software projects often depend on multiple ecosystems, making license tracking and dependency management exponentially harder without interoperability. [00:25:02] Andrew explains how researchers waste time rebuilding metadata mapping from scratch across ecosystems and having unified references would accelerate research and tool development. [00:27:58] Damián discusses how better metadata could support academic credit and funding by enabling easier citation and recognition of open source contributions tied to research projects. [00:29:39] How can you get involved? Damián invites package manager developers and metadata tool builders to join, and Andrew encourages anyone working with SBOMs or package metadata tools to contribute war stories, mapping, or research use cases. [00:33:01] Andrew mentions all the places you can join in on the meetings and to share where you are interested in working on. Value Adds (Picks) of the week: [00:35:25] Alice’s pick is apples. [00:36:17] Damián’s pick is hockey. [00:37:04] Andrew’s pick is puppy training. Panelist: Alice Sowerby Guests: Andrew Nesbitt Damián Vicino Links: CHAOSS (https://chaoss.community/) CHAOSS Project X (https://twitter.com/chaossproj?lang=en) CHAOSScast Podcast (https://podcast.chaoss.community/) CHAOSS YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/@CHAOSStube/videos) [email protected] (mailto:[email protected]) Alice Sowerby LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/alice-sowerby-ba692a13/?originalSubdomain=uk) Andrew Nesbitt Website (https://nesbitt.io/) Andrew Nesbitt GitHub (https://github.com/andrew) Andrew Nesbitt Mastodon (https://mastodon.social/@andrewnez) Damián Vicino LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/dvicino/) Damián Vicino GitHub (https://github.com/sdavtaker) CHAOSSWG: Package Metadata (https://github.com/chaoss/wg-package-metadata) CHAOSS Calendar (https://chaoss.community/chaoss-calendar/) CHAOSS Slack (https://chaoss-workspace.slack.com/join/shared_invite/zt-r65szij9-QajX59hkZUct82b0uACA6g#/shared-invite/email) Special Guests: Andrew Nesbitt and Damián Vicino.

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• Episode 120: Practitioner Guides: #5 Demonstrating Organizational Value

  Thank you to the folks at Sustain (https://sustainoss.org/) for providing the hosting account for CHAOSSCast! CHAOSScast – Episode 120 In this episode of CHAOSScast, Harmony Elendu hosts a discussion with Dawn Foster and Bob Killen to discuss their extensive experience in open source and detail the motivations behind the creation of the CHAOSS Practitioner Guides. These guides aim to help practitioners navigate the overwhelming amount of data related to open source projects and understand how to improve project health and sustainability. The discussion covers strategies for communicating the business value of open source efforts to leadership, framing contributions in a way that resonates with organizational priorities, and prioritizing investments in critical projects. Press download now! [00:00:31] Dawn and Bob introduce themselves and their backgrounds. [00:02:24] Dawn explains why CHAOSS created Practitioner Guides: to help navigate the “tsunami of data” from open source metrics. The new guide is different and is focused on demonstrating organizational value. [00:04:36] Harmony asks about the inspiration for the guide. Dawn credits Bob and how the guide was built largely from his talks at KubeCon and the Linux Foundation Member Summit. [00:05:22] Bob talks about macroeconomic pressures where open source is often first cut. The guide helps orgs tell compelling stories to leadership about open source ROI. [00:07:14] Bob shares a case study: maintainers reframed contributions in leadership’s language- revenue impact, bug fix turnaround, and resource efficiency and how this secured leadership support. Dawn adds that every organization values different things and provides an example. [00:11:36] Bob introduces the formula: Priority = Criticality x Health. [00:13:36] Dawn emphasizes formula helps orgs prioritize strategically critical but under-resourced projects (example: Kubernetes cluster API at VMware). Bob notes criticality differs by company and even department. [00:16:51] Harmony ask how to report open source value to leadership. Bob explains the importance of framing in leadership’s language, not just raw contribution counts. Dawn warns against poor framing and explains about being careful about how you talk to leadership about your open source efforts. Value Adds (Picks) of the week: [00:20:47] Dawn’s pick is discovery how easy it was to build a static site with GitHub Pages and Jekyll. [00:21:38] Bob’s pick is dosu.dev. [00:22:18] Harmony’s pick is exploring AI models for fraud detection and system tracking. Panelists: Harmony Elendu Guests: Dawn Foster Bob Killen Links: CHAOSS (https://chaoss.community/) CHAOSS Project X (https://twitter.com/chaossproj?lang=en) CHAOSScast Podcast (https://podcast.chaoss.community/) CHAOSS YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/@CHAOSStube/videos) [email protected] (mailto:[email protected]) Harmony Elendu X (https://x.com/ogaharmony) Dawn Foster X (https://twitter.com/geekygirldawn?lang=en) Bob Killen Website (https://mrbobbytabl.es/) CHAOSS Practitioner Guides (https://chaoss.community/about-chaoss-practitioner-guides/) CHAOSS Practitioner Guides (YouTube) (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL60k37cxI-HSHV4-rEsWMzExw2y2Oq79Z) CHAOSS Data Science Working Group: New Guides, Research, and More (Blog Post by Dawn Foster (https://chaoss.community/chaoss-data-science-working-group-new-guides-research-and-more/) CHAOSS Practitioner Guide: Getting Started with Sunsetting an Open Source Project (https://chaoss.community/practitioner-guide-sunset/) CHAOSS Practitioner Guide: Getting Started with Building Diverse Leadership (https://chaoss.community/practitioner-guide-diverse-leadership/) GitHub Pages documentation (https://docs.github.com/en/pages) Jekyll (https://jekyllrb.com/) Dosu (https://dosu.dev/) Special Guest: Bob Killen.

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• Episode 119: Guest Episode - Sustain asks how Ecosyste.ms maps open source dependencies

  Thank you to the folks at Sustain (https://sustainoss.org/) for providing the hosting account for CHAOSSCast! CHAOSScast – Episode 119 In this episode of CHAOSScast, we have a special episode from our friends at Sustain. Host Richard Littauer from Sustain is joined by guests Ben Nickolls and Andrew Nesbitt to discuss the ecosyste.ms project. They explore how ecosyste.ms collects and analyzes metadata from various open-source projects to create a comprehensive database that can help improve funding allocation. The discussion covers the importance of funding the most critical open-source projects, the existing gaps in funding, and the partnership between ecosyste.ms and Open Source Collective to create funding algorithms that support entire ecosystems. They also talk about the challenges of maintaining data, reaching out to project maintainers, and the broader implications for the open-source community. Hit the download button now! [00:03:16] Andrew and Ben explain ecosyste.ms, what it does, and how it compares to Libraries.io. [00:06:17] Ecosyste.ms tracks metadata, not the packages themselves, and enriches data via dependency graphs, committers, issues, SBOMs, and more. [00:08:12] Andrew talks about finding 1,890 Git hosts and how many critical projects live outside GitHub. [00:09:55] There’s a conversation on metadata uses and SBOM parsing. [00:14:07] Richard inquires about the ecosystem.ms funds on their website which Andrew explains it’s a collaboration between Open Collective and ecosyste.ms. that algorithmically distributes funds to the most used, not most popular packages. [00:17:03] Ben shares how this is different from previous projects and brings up a past project, “Back Your Stack” and explains how ecosyste.ms is doing two things differently. [00:20:17] Ben explains how it supports payouts to other platforms and encourages maintainers to adopt funding YAML files for automation. Andrew touches on efficient outreach, payout management, and API usage (GraphQL). [00:26:54] Ben elaborates on how companies can fund ecosyste.ms (like Django) instead of curating their own lists and being inspired by Sentry’s work with the Open Source Pledge. [00:30:50] Andrew speaks about scaling and developer engagement and emphasizes their focus is on high-impact sustainability. [00:34:06] Richard asks, “Why does it matter?” Ben explains that most current funding goes to popular, not most used projects and ecosyste.ms aims to fix the gap with data backed funding, and he suggests use of open standards like 360Giving and Open Contracting Data. [00:37:04] Andrew shares his thoughts on funding the right projects by improving 1% of OSS, you uplift the quality of millions of dependent projects with healthier infrastructure, faster security updates, and more resilient software. [00:39:53] Find out where you can follow ecosyste.ms and the blog on the web. Quotes: [00:12:36] “I call them interesting forks. If a fork is referenced by a package, it’ll get indexed.” [00:23:25] We’ve built a service that now moves like $25 million a year between OSS maintainers on OSC.” [00:34:41] “We don’t have enough information to make collective decisions about which projects, communities, maintainers, should receive more funding.” [00:35:41] “The NSF POSE Program has distributed hundreds of millions of dollars of funding to open source communities alone.” [00:37:05] “If you have ten, twenty thousand really critical open source projects, that actually isn’t unachievable to make those projects sustainable.” Spotlight: [00:40:53] Ben’s spotlight is Jellyfin. [00:41:38]** **Andrew’s spotlight is zizmor. [00:43:39] Richard’s spotlight is The LaTeX Project. Panelist: Richard Littauer Guests: Ben Nickolls Andrew Nesbitt Links: CHAOSS (https://chaoss.community/) CHAOSS Project Twitter (https://twitter.com/chaossproj?lang=en) CHAOSScast Podcast (https://podcast.chaoss.community/) [email protected] (mailto:[email protected]) Alice Sowerby LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/alice-sowerby-ba692a13/?originalSubdomain=uk) SustainOSS (https://sustainoss.org/) [email protected] (mailto:[email protected]) [email protected] (mailto:[email protected]) SustainOSS Discourse (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/) SustainOSS Mastodon (https://mastodon.social/tags/sustainoss) SustainOSS Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/sustainoss.bsky.social) SustainOSS LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/sustainoss/) Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) (https://opencollective.com/sustainoss) Richard Littauer Socials (https://www.burntfen.com/2023-05-30/socials) Ben Nickolls LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamuk/) Andrew Nesbitt Website (https://nesbitt.io/) Andrew Nesbitt Mastodon (https://mastodon.social/@andrewnez) Octobox (https://github.com/octobox) ecosyste.ms (https://ecosyste.ms/) ecosyste.ms Blog (https://blog.ecosyste.ms/) Open Source Collective (https://oscollective.org/) Open Source Collective Updates (https://opencollective.com/opensource/updates) Open Source Collective Contributions (https://opencollective.com/opensource) Open Source Collective Contributors (https://opencollective.com/open-source) Open Collective (https://opencollective.com/) 24 Pull Requests (https://24pullrequests.com/) Libraries.io (https://libraries.io/) The penumbra of open source (EPJ Data Science) (https://epjdatascience.springeropen.com/articles/10.1140/epjds/s13688-022-00345-7) FOSDEM ’25- Open source funding: you’re doing it wrong (Andrew and Ben) (https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-5576-open-source-funding-you-re-doing-it-wrong/) Vue.js (https://vuejs.org/) thanks.dev (https://thanks.dev/home) StackAid (https://www.stackaid.us/) Back Your Stack (https://backyourstack.com/) NSF POSE (https://www.nsf.gov/funding/initiatives/pathways-enable-open-source-ecosystems) Django (https://www.djangoproject.com/) GitHub Sponsors (https://github.com/sponsors) Sustain Podcast-Episode 80: Emma Irwin and the Foss Fund Program (https://podcast.sustainoss.org/80) Sustain Podcast- 3 Episodes featuring Chad Whitacre (https://podcast.sustainoss.org/guests/chad-whitacre) Sustain Podcast- Episode 218: Karthik Ram & James Howison on Research Software Visibility Infrastructure Priorities (https://podcast.sustainoss.org/218) Sustain Podcast-Episode 247: Chad Whitacre on the Open Source Pledge (https://podcast.sustainoss.org/247) Invest in Open Infrastructure (https://investinopen.org/) 360Giving (https://www.360giving.org/) Open Contracting Data Standard (https://standard.open-contracting.org/latest/en/) Jellyfin (https://opencollective.com/jellyfin) zizmor (https://github.com/zizmorcore/zizmor) The LaTeX Project (https://www.latex-project.org/) Special Guests: Andrew Nesbitt, Benjamin Nickolls, and Richard Littauer.

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• Episode 118: Insights from CHAOSScon Africa, Open Source Community Africa Festival, and KCD Nigeria

  Thank you to the folks at Sustain (https://sustainoss.org/) for providing the hosting account for CHAOSSCast! CHAOSScast – Episode 118 In this episode of CHAOSScast, host Harmony welcomes guests Maryblessing Okolie, Ileriayo Adebiyi, and Joan Njeri, to discuss their experiences and key moments from recent open source community events in Lagos, Nigeria. These events include CHAOSScon Africa, Open Source Community Africa Festival (OSCAFEST), and KCD Nigeria. The guests share their backgrounds and roles within the open source community, their experiences organizing and attending the events, and the importance of building relationships. They also discuss impactful talks and sessions from the events, highlighting topics such as open source program offices (OSPOs), onboarding systems for open source projects, and the role of passion in the tech industry. Hit download now! [00:00:43] Harmony and our guests introduce themselves and their backgrounds. [00:02:54] The guests tell us which conferences they attended. [00:04:22] Maryblessing reflects on her experience organizing CHAOSScon Africa. [00:08:48] Ileriayo, one of the organizers of KCD Nigeria, shares his experiences with planning the event that took two years. [00:11:31] Joan shares her point of view as an attendee of OSCAFEST, being inspired by the energy and collaboration at the events and built partnerships with Eclipse Foundation and others for Kenya projects. [00:13:24] Harmony and our guests discuss their favorite talks they attended. [00:21:46] Joan and Ileriayo explain the cultural exchanges they experienced at the events (e.g. food, Pidgin language, networking, traffic, and cross-continent collaboration.) Value Adds (Picks) of the week: * [00:27:13] Harmony’s pick is connecting with people. * [00:27:31] Joan’s pick is connecting with people. * [00:28:18] Ileriayo’s pick is relationships and people. * [00:29:19] Maryblessing’s pick is Anime. Panelist: Harmony Elendu Guests: Maryblessing Okolie Ileriayo Adebiyi Joan Njeri Links: CHAOSS (https://chaoss.community/) CHAOSS Project X (https://twitter.com/chaossproj?lang=en) CHAOSScast Podcast (https://podcast.chaoss.community/) CHAOSS YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/@CHAOSStube/videos) [email protected] (mailto:[email protected]) Harmony Elendu X (https://x.com/ogaharmony) Maryblessing Okolie Mastodon (https://www.linkedin.com/in/ileriayoadebiyi/) Maryblessing Okolie LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/maryblessingokolie/?originalSubdomain=ng) Maryblessing Okolie GitHub (https://github.com/Maryblessing/) Ileriayo Adebiyi Website (https://ileriayoadebiyi.com/) Ileriayo Adebiyi X (https://x.com/ileriayooo) Ileriayo Adebiyi LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/ileriayoadebiyi/) Joan Njeri X (https://x.com/Joanndegwa_) CHAOSScon Africa 2025 (https://chaoss.community/chaosscon-africa-2025/) OSCAFEST 2025 (https://festival.oscafrica.org/) KCD Nigeria 2025 (https://community.cncf.io/events/details/cncf-kcd-nigeria-presents-kcd-nigeria-2025/) Eclipse Foundation (https://www.eclipse.org/) One Piece (1999 TV series) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Piece_(1999_TV_series)) Special Guests: Ileriayo Adebiyi, Joan Njeri, and Maryblessing Okolie.

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• Episode 117: Business Success with Open Source with VM (Vicky) Brasseur

  Thank you to the folks at Sustain (https://sustainoss.org/) for providing the hosting account for CHAOSSCast! CHAOSScast – Episode 117 In this episode of CHAOSScast, Georg Link and Sean Goggins welcome guest Vicky Brasseur, author of Business Success with Open Source and Forge Your Future with Open Source. The conversation explores Vicky’s early journey into open source, starting from discovering Project Gutenberg in the early '90s to using Linux for the first time, the challenges companies face when using open source software, and how organizations can better leverage it strategically. The discussion also delves into her book, Forge Your Future with Open Source, which addresses common questions about contributing to open source projects. Vicky highlights the gaps in strategic open source usage within organizations and offers insights on how companies can better utilize open source software to reduce business risks. The conversation wraps up with practical advice for making a compelling business case for open source contributions and the importance of speaking the language of decision-makers. Press download now! [00:01:05] Vicky introduces herself, shares her journey into open source, and introduces Project Gutenberg, LibriVox, and the value of community contributions to open knowledge and public domain resources. [00:06:44] Vicky shares how her first book, Forge Your Future with Open Source, helps newcomers start their contribution journey and why she wrote it to be reused across audiences. [00:10:54] There’s a discussion on how open source opens career path globally, especially in underserved economics. [00:12:46] Vicky shares some advice from her book for new contributors: Don’t start with Linux and find a project in an area you love (e.g., music, cars, sewing) to maintain long-term motivation. [00:15:18] Sean and Georg share their personal origin stories in open source. [00:19:23] Georg introduces Vicky’s second book, Business Success with Open Source, and she discusses the premise of the book and the “Three Part Framework.” [00:26:08] Vicky argues that even Linux Foundation member companies often don’t understand open source at an organizational level. [00:29:19] Vicky is available for consulting, following her layoff. She encourages listeners to reach out via her website. [00:33:55] Why do projects fail? Vicky shares failures come from poor communication and unchecked assumptions across industries, not just tech. [00:35:36] Vicky criticizes companies for chasing vanity metrics like GitHub stars and praises the CHAOSS Project but notes most companies misuse metrics or don’t tie them to strategic goals. Also, “Script kiddie” is explained. [00:40:13] Vicky explains how to ethically influence execs by speaking their language, use Power Points and show cost comparisons (e.g., OpenStreetMap vs Google Maps), and she emphasizes to use “TL;DR” (Too Long; Didn’t Read) friendly presentations to connect open source financial and operational outcomes. [00:44:27] There’s a special discount code for everyone to use on Vicky’s eBooks and audiobooks on The Pragmatic Bookshelf website and the code is VBCHAOSS *for 30% off *through Oct 2025. [00:45:16] Find out where you can follow Vicky and her work on the internet. Value Adds (Picks) of the week: [00:46:07] Sean’s pick is the movie, Multiplicity (1996) starring Michael Keaton (not Carbon Copy as stated.) [00:47:29] Vicky’s pick is sharing her joy in spinning wool with a vintage spinning wheel. [00:49:35] Georg’s pick is going to an amusement park with his family. Panelists: Georg Link Sean Goggins Guest: VM (Vicky) Brasseur Links: CHAOSS (https://chaoss.community/) CHAOSS Project X (https://twitter.com/chaossproj?lang=en) CHAOSScast Podcast (https://podcast.chaoss.community/) CHAOSS YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/@CHAOSStube/videos) [email protected] (mailto:[email protected]) Georg Link Website (https://georg.link/) Sean Goggins X (https://twitter.com/sociallycompute) VM (Vicky) Brasseur Website (https://www.vmbrasseur.com/about/) VM (Vicky) Brasseur Blog (https://blog.vmbrasseur.com/) VM (Vicky) Brasseur LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/vmbrasseur/) VM (Vicky) Brasseur Mastodon (https://social.vmbrasseur.com/@vmbrasseur) Project Gutenberg (https://www.gutenberg.org/) LibriVox (https://librivox.org/) Forge Your Future with Open Source by VM (Vicky) Brasseur (Code: VBCHAOSS) (https://pragprog.com/titles/vbopens/forge-your-future-with-open-source/) Business Success with Open Source by VM (Vicky) Brasseur (Code: VBCHAOSS) (https://pragprog.com/titles/vbfoss/business-success-with-open-source/) Nora McDonald (College of Engineering and Computing) (https://computing.gmu.edu/profiles/nmcdona4) Zotero (https://www.zotero.org/) Failure: Why It Happens & How to Benefit from It by VM (Vicky) Brasseur (https://archive.org/details/pdxdevops2017-failure) Script kiddie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Script_kiddie) Kevin Mitnick (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Mitnick) Multiplicity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplicity_(film)) Spinning wheel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinning_wheel) Special Guest: VM (Vicky) Brasseur.

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