AI and I

• Jhana Meditation Silenced Her Mind—And Changed Her View On AI | Nadia Asparouhova, Author and researcher

  After two Jhana meditation retreats Nadia Asparouhova could silence her mind, change her emotional state at will, and even intentionally slip out of consciousness. It challenged the idea that our minds are not under our control—and made her wonder if we’re more like AI than we realize. Nadia is a writer and researcher of technology and culture. She published Working in Public, a book about the evolution of open-source development, with Stripe Press in 2020. Her latest book, Antimemetics, is about why some ideas don’t go viral even though they’re powerful. I had her on the show to talk about her experience with Jhana meditation and how it reshaped the way she thinks about being human in the age of AI. We get into:Jhana as a means to nurture profound joy and calm. Unlike many meditation practices that emphasize passive observation, Jhana is goal-oriented—practitioners proactively cultivate states of concentrated bliss. Apart from helping her regulate her emotions, it prompted Nadia to reexamine deep questions of our human existence. Self-talk is not essential as it seems. Nadia describes how advanced meditation quieted her inner voice—challenging the idea that self-talk is core to being human.How years of cultural evolution have shaped our sense of self. According to Nadia, our modern conception of “self”  isn’t as timeless as we assume. She draws on psychologist Julian Jaynes’s theory that our inner dialogue—what we often equate with consciousness—only emerged in humans a few thousand years ago; a provocation to reconsider the benchmarks we use to assess the intelligence or sentience of LLMs.What it is like to experience a “cessation.” On her last meditation retreat, Nadia experiences a cessation where your consciousness abruptly winks out—like suddenly flipping a switch. Nadia described it as slipping into nothingness, then returning with the jarring realization that even your sense of self can vanish and reappear.Why she likes the unknowability of AI. The mechanics of exactly how LLMs predict their next token remain a mystery. Driven by thousands of subtle, context-dependent correlations, they’re too complex to distill into a simple explanation. Nadia finds joy in the unknowability of it all, seeing the ambiguity as an invitation to explore. How she uses AI as a writing partner. Nadia believes the trope of the solitary, brooding writer is beginning to shift with the rise of LLMs. For her, ChatGPT has made writing feel less isolating. She turns to it at both ends of the process: to help make sense of early ideas, and later, to sharpen phrasing and land on just the right words.If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share! Want even more?Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT here: https://every.ck.page/ultimate-guide-to-prompting-chatgpt. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free.To hear more from Dan Shipper:Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribe Follow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipper Timestamps:Introduction: 00:01:15The beginning of Nadia’s journey with Jhana: 00:02:34How Jhana is different from other meditation practices: 00:05:51 Jhana reframed the way Nadia thinks about being human: 00:09:52How Nadia integrates her experience with Jhana into her life: 00:14:16Nadia describes her experience of the final stage of Jhana: 00:16:44Why our modern sense of self isn’t as timeless as you might assume: 00:19:11How new technologies can be a mirror to ourselves: 00:23:53Nadia embraces the feeling of not knowing how AI precisely works: 00:33:55How Nadia uses ChatGPT to make writing less isolating: 00:38:03Links mentioned:Nadia Asparouhova: https://nadia.xyz/ Her deep dive on Jhana meditation: https://nadia.xyz/jhanas Nadia’s book: Working in Public, AntimemeticsBooks about how new technology can change our sense of self: The WEIRDest People in the World, Listening to Prozac

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  53:37
• The Next AI Wave Will Be Social, Not Solo | Sarah Tavel, Benchmark and ex-Pinterest

  Sarah Tavel thinks it's criminal that ChatGPT isn’t inherently social.There’s no easy way to discover great prompts or share the ones that worked. As a venture partner at Benchmark, Sarah believes that the next wave of consumer AI will be built on this missing social layer—by product-driven founders who understand people, not just models. Sarah has seen this shift before. As one of Pinterest’s first product managers, she saw the company grow from a niche consumer tool to a beloved global community. On this episode of Every's podcast AI & I, we talk about how she’s applying the lessons she learned to AI—and what it takes to build a breakout consumer AI app today. We get into:Why product geniuses win as new tech matures. In the early days of a new technology, companies win by wrangling raw innovation into something usable. But as the infrastructure matures, Sarah says the edge shifts to product thinkers—founders who turn new capabilities into delightful user experiences.The future of prompting is social. When Sarah had to dig through Reddit to find a prompt to help her interpret her blood test results, she saw a gap: The best prompt creators are invisible. Sarah bets that a social AI product that makes them discoverable and followable would gain traction.Sarah’s method to spot exceptional founders. Sarah backs founders for whom building a company feels like a calling—or even an affliction. These are people who have fallen in love with the process and are obsessed with learning how to grow alongside their companies.How to tell if your startup really has network effects. Founders raising money love to say that their business has “network effects.” Sarah has learned to look for early signs they’re real—like traction in a small, white-hot segment of the market. If there’s no evidence the flywheel is already starting to spin, it’s probably not a network effect.How LLMs change the way the best VCs invest. Sarah thinks the future of venture will be shaped by how well VCs can turn the decisions they make into training data. After every pitch, she logs what she liked, what she didn’t, the deal terms, and her reasoning. Over time, she’s building a dataset of her own judgment—one an LLM could help her use to pressure-test decisions and avoid past mistakes.This is a must-listen for if you’re building a consumer AI product and want to see ahead of the curve.If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share! Want even more?Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT here: https://every.ck.page/ultimate-guide-to-prompting-chatgpt. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free.To hear more from Dan Shipper:Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribe Follow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipper Sponsor:Attio: Go to⁠⁠ https://www.⁠⁠⁠⁠attio.com/every⁠⁠⁠ and get 15% off your first year on your AI-powered CRM.Timestamps:Introduction: 00:01:10Why the future of consumer AI belongs to founders with product intuition: 00:02:26What Sarah sees as ChatGPT’s biggest weakness: 00:11:09How Sarah would design a consumer AI app with social DNA: 00:18:45The kind of founders Sarah invests in: 00:25:04How to know if your startup’s network-effects are real: 00:29:26What’s catching Sarah’s eye beyond AI: 00:36:33How AI will change the way top venture capitalists invest: 00:41:35Links to resources mentioned in the episode:Sarah Tavel: @sarahtavelSarah’s substack: https://www.sarahtavel.com/ Eugene Wei’s essay about Status-as-a-Service: https://www.eugenewei.com/blog/2019/2/19/status-as-a-service The book Sarah talks about in the context of founders who become CEOs in pursuit of status: The Five Temptations of a CEO

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• How to Predict the Future With Kevin Kelly, WIRED's Cofounder

  Kevin Kelly has spent more time thinking about the future than almost anyone else.From VR in the 1980s to the blockchain in the 2000s—and now generative AI—Kevin has spent a lifetime journeying to the frontiers of technology, only to return with rich stories about what’s next.Today, as Wired's senior maverick, his project for 2025 is to outline what the next century looks like in a world shaped by new technologies like AI and genetic engineering. He’s a personal hero of mine—not to mention a fellow Annie Dillard fan—and it was a privilege to have him on the show. We get into:How you can predict the future. According to Kevin, the draw of new frontiers—from the first edition of Burning Man and remote corners of Asia, to the early days of the internet and AI—isn’t staying at the edge forever; it's returning with a story to tell.Why history is so important to help you understand the future To stay grounded while exploring what’s new, Kevin balances the thrill of the future with the wisdom of the past. He pairs AI research with reading about history, and playing with an AI tool by retreating to his workshop to make something with his hands.From 1,000 true fans to an audience of one. Rather than creating for an audience, Kevin has been using LLMs to explore his own imagination. After realizing that da Vinci, Martin Luther, and Columbus were alive at the same time, he asked ChatGPT to imagine them snowed in at a hotel together, and the prompt spiraled into an epic saga, co-written with AI. But he has no plans to publish it because the joy was in creating something just for himself.What the history of electricity can teach us about AI. Kevin draws a parallel between AI and the early days of electricity. We could produce electric sparks long before we understood the forces that created them, and now we’re building intelligent machines without really understanding what intelligence is.Why Kevin sees intelligence as a mosaic—not a monolith. Kevin believes intelligence isn’t a single force, but a compound of many cognitive elements. He draws from Marvin Minsky’s “society of mind”—the theory that the mind is made up of smaller agents working together—and sees echoes of this in the Mixture of Experts architecture used in some models today.Your competitive advantage is being yourself. Don’t aim to be the best—aim to be the only. Kevin realized the stories no one else at Wired wanted to write were often the ones he was suited for, and trusting that instinct led to some of his best work.This is a must-watch for anyone who wants to make sense of AI through the lens of history, learn how to spot the future before it arrives, or grew up reading Wired.If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share! To hear more from Dan:Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribe Follow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipper SponsorsVanta: Get $1,000 off of Vanta at ⁠⁠⁠https://www.vanta.com/every⁠⁠⁠ and automate up to 90% of the work for SOC 2, ISO 27001, and more.Attio: Go to⁠ https://www.⁠⁠⁠⁠attio.com/every⁠⁠ and get 15% off your first year on your AI-powered CRM.Timestamps:Introduction: 00:00:50Why Kevin and I love Annie Dillard: 00:01:10Learn how to predict the future like Kevin: 00:12:50What the history of electricity can teach us about AI: 00:16:08How Kevin thinks about the nature of intelligence: 00:20:11Kevin’s advice on discovering your competitive advantage: 00:27:21The story of how Kevin assembled a bench of star writers for Wired: 00:31:07How Kevin used ChatGPT to co-create a book: 00:36:17Using AI as a mirror for your mind: 00:40:45What Kevin learned from betting on VR in the 1980s: 00:45:16Links to resources mentioned:Kevin Kelly: @kevin2kellyKelly’s books: https://kk.org/books Annie Dillard books that Kelly and Dan discuss: Pilgrim at Tinker Creek, Teaching a Stone to Talk, Holy the Firm, The Writing LifeDillard’s account of the total eclipse: "Total Eclipse"

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  53:41
• This AI Alien Will Bring In $4 Million This Year in Revenue - Ep. 56 with Quinten Farmer and Eliot Peper

  500K people are confiding in an AI alien—and it's on track to generate $4M this year.It’s called a Tolan: an animated AI character that can talk to you like your best friend. The company behind it, Portola, has 4x’d their ARR in the last month from viral growth on TikTok and Instagram. Tolan isn’t just a hyper-growth startup—they’re also exploring AI as a completely new creative tool, and storytelling medium. Their goal is to help their users go from overwhelmed to grounded, and it’s working. Today, on AI & I, I sit down with two of the minds behind Tolans:My good friend Quinten Farmer, Portola’s cofounder and CEO, and Eliot Peper, their head of story and a best-selling science fiction novelist. We get into:How to build AI personalities users love. During user onboarding, the team gathers information—through a light-touch personality quiz—and then uses frameworks like the Big Five and Myers-Briggs to shape a Tolan that mirrors the user; like an older sibling might. The aim is to create someone who feels familiar enough to be safe, but different enough to be interesting.Why AI characters are “improv actors”. Rather than scripting detailed prompts, the team trains Tolans to improvise—inspired by Keith Johnstone’s book Impro, where he talks about building strong narratives through free association and recombination.How “memory” is critical to developing compelling characters. Tolans develop their personalities through “situations”: small narrative setups (a memory, a joke, an embarrassing moment) the Tolan reacts to, remembers, and gradually weaves into its character; accumulating into something that feels like a real lived experience.Why response time is everything for voice AI interactions. A Tolan has at most two seconds to curate the right context about a user and deliver a reply that feels genuine—the team has found that even half a second slower can break the user’s immersive interaction with the AI.The future of AI as a totally new creative medium. New technologies bring about new formats and new mediums. AI creates the opportunity for creatives to tell completely new kinds of stories—if they’re brave enough to try it.“White mirror” technologies that make you feel more like yourself. Amid concerns that tech drives polarization and isolation, Tolan offers a counterexample: a tool designed to make the best of what humanity knows about being a flourishing individual available on demand. The company’s north star is helping users go from feeling overwhelmed to feeling grounded.This is a must-watch for anyone exploring AI as a creative medium—or curious about the future of human-AI relationships.If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share! Want even more?Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT here: https://every.ck.page/ultimate-guide-to-prompting-chatgpt. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free.To hear more from Dan Shipper:Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribe Follow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipper Timestamps:Introduction: 00:01:30Talking to the Portola CEO’s Tolan, Clarence: 00:04:07How Portola went from building software for kids to AI companions: 00:09:11Why response time is everything for voice-based AI interfaces: 00:23:40Tolans don’t use scripted prompts—they’re taught to improvise: 00:29:54How to know which AI personalities your users will click with: 00:37:23Developing the character traits of an AI companion: 00:42:27What does it mean to build technology that makes us flourish: 00:49:48How Portola evaluates whether Tolans are resonating with users: 01:01:10Inside Portola’s viral growth strategy: 01:11:01Links to resources mentioned in the episode:Quinten Farmer: @quintendfEliot Peper: @eliotpeperMake your own Tolan: https://www.tolans.com/ Keith Johnston’s book about improvisation: ImproStephen King’s book about writing: On Writing

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• An Inside Look at Every’s Design Philosophy - Ep. 55 with Lucas Crespo

  This episode is sponsored by Vanta. Achieving SOC 2 compliance can help you win bigger deals, enter new markets, and deepen trust with your customers—but it can cost you real time and money. Vanta automates up to 90% of the work for SOC 2, ISO 27001, and more, getting you audit-ready in weeks instead of months and saving you up to 90% of associated costs—and Every listeners can get $1,000 off of Vanta at ⁠https://www.vanta.com/every⁠.Lucas Crespo is the mastermind behind Every's visual vibe—and he does it one prompt at a time.As our creative lead, Lucas uses tools like native image gen in ChatGPT and Midjourney to generate the cover images you see every day. He also designs the interfaces for our products—Cora, Spiral, and Sparkle—and makes everything on our site feel as thoughtful and delightful as possible.We get into:Why Every’s aesthetic feels familiar and new at the same time. Every’s aesthetic plays with the tension between the old (like Greek statues and Baroque symbols) and the new (like saturated colors and modern motifs) to make the glamor of the past feel fresh.Art direction matters more than ever today. As AI makes it easier to generate images, Lucas says the real work of design is shifting toward art direction, specifically, curating an aesthetic that feels “organic;” on his X timeline that’s showing up as clouds, earthy landscapes, and textures.Reimagining what a website can be with AI. Lucas compares most websites to identical buildings—predictable, efficient, and forgettable—and wonders how AI can help us break that mold by designing experiences that prioritize serendipity over speed, and curiosity over control.Behind the scenes of Cora’s visual aesthetic. How Lucas designed the landing page and launch video for Cora by rooting it in the product’s philosophy: turning the inbox from a source of chaos into something that feels calm, thoughtful—like stepping into spring.The future of internet interfaces. Lucas believes the future of digital interfaces will be curated with the same care as a film set or ad campaign, where every detail is chosen with intention.Lucas also walks us through how he created the headline image for Every’s consulting page—a human and robotic hand fist-bumping—using Midjourney to iterate from rough prompt to polished visual.This is a must watch for anyone interested in the future of design and making the internet a little more beautiful every day.If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share!Want even more?Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT here: https://every.ck.page/ultimate-guide-to-prompting-chatgpt. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free.To hear more from Dan Shipper:Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribe Follow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipper Timestamps:Introduction: 00:01:41How AI changed the course of Lucas’s career: 00:04:02Why Every’s aesthetic feels both familiar and fresh: 00:08:00Why Lucas thinks minimalism is overrated: 00:14:53Art direction matters more than ever in the age of AI: 00:20:38 How to reimagine what a website can be with AI: 00:23:42Lucas’s process in Midjourney to generate cover images: 00:33:08Midjourney v. image generation in ChatGPT: 00:42:30Behind the scenes of Cora’s design language: 00:49:07How AI is rewriting the role of a designer: 00:59:18Links to resources mentioned in the episode:Lucas Crespo: @lucas__crespoThe pieces Lucas has written for Every: “When An AI Tool Finally Gets You”, “A Definitive Guide to Using Midjourney” Dan’s piece on the allocation economy: “The Knowledge Economy Is Over. Welcome to the Allocation Economy” 

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  1:03:19

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