The Deep End With Lecrae

Former Muslim, attorney, and apologist Abdu Murray spent nine years studying Islam, Christianity, philosophy, and history. By year two, he had enough evidence to convert. It took seven more years to act on it.
In this conversation, Abdu and Lecrae go deep on why the cross does not insult God's greatness. It proves it. They explore how identity in Middle Eastern culture can make leaving Islam feel impossible, which Quran passages pointed Abdu toward the Bible, and what his nine-year search looked like from the inside.
They also discuss the identity crisis AI is quietly accelerating, why cancel culture is really assassination culture with better branding, why many people are missing the point in the gender conversation, and what it means to answer a person instead of a question.
Abdu also shares, for the first time in this conversation, that his father was murdered in October 2024. What Abdu says about that moment, and how it reshaped the way Abdu sees the problem of evil, is worth the whole episode.
Topics covered: Islam and Christianity, the problem of evil, apologetics, identity and the imago Dei, AI and human worth, gender ideology, just war theory, deconstruction, and what it costs to tell the truth when your whole family is watching.
Abdu Murray is the founder of Embrace the Truth Ministry, author of Fake ID, and host of multiple podcasts reaching millions globally.
Find Abdu at embracethetruth.org | @AbduMurray12 on Instagram
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Lecrae sits down with Michael Miller — co-host of Remnant Radio, church planter, and one of the most scripturally grounded voices in the deliverance space — to talk about what the Bible actually says about demons, healing, spiritual authority, and why the charismatic church keeps producing charlatans. No easy answers. No hype. Just a long, honest look at the stuff most pastors won't touch.
They get into: Michael's journey from a broken home with a Jewish mother and Mormon father to being discipled by Jack Deere. Why the cessationist argument doesn't hold up scripturally. What "demonization" actually means in Greek — and why "possession" is the wrong word. Whether Christians can have demons (spoiler: the early church didn't debate it). The Scottish border clan curse from 1525 that's still showing up in prayer sessions. How to tell a false prophet from a real one. Why prophecy is supposed to be local — and why the YouTube prophets keep getting it wrong. And Lecrae shares his own story: the name he kept praying over for weeks, the girl who couldn't walk, and what happened when he finally said it out loud.
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0:00 The First Demon He Ever Encountered
1:07 Introducing Michael Miller
4:42 A Jewish Mother, a Mormon Father, and a Hidden Bible
7:00 Why He Couldn't Handle the Pentecostal Packaging
8:25 Praying to Be Discipled by Jack Deere (And It Worked)
9:17 [Ad: Talkiatry]
11:30 Lecrae's Background: The Spooky Stuff Was Off Limits
13:56 Why Lecrae Started Digging Into the Supernatural
15:26 How Michael Got Grounded in Scripture on Spiritual Things
18:18 John Wimber Prayed for the Sick for Three Years With Nothing
20:03 The First Time Michael Actually Saw Something
23:10 The Night Before: He Was Frustrated With God
25:17 Who Believes in This and Who Doesn't
27:45 So When It Comes to Demons...
28:32 The Full Story: The Demon in South Africa
33:25 Why Did It Listen to You and Not Her?
38:07 Christian Authority Over Demons: It's Position, Not Gift
40:46 Can Christians Have Demons?
44:29 The Greek Word "Demonize" and Why It Changes Everything
46:56 What Tertullian Said (The Guy Who Invented the Word "Trinity")
49:25 The Scottish Border Clan Curse From 1525
54:09 What Makes a Curse Effective?
59:16 Why Michael Miller Is Not Afraid of Demons
1:01:48 The Woman in Austria: Endometriosis and What Happened Next
1:03:08 What Even Is a Demon? Nephilim, Fallen Angels, and Where Things Get Weird
1:07:44 Lecrae Breaks Down His Charismatic Journey
1:09:13 How Do You Tell a False Prophet From a Real One?
1:11:22 The YouTube Prophets Are Getting It Wrong
1:16:13 Can the Charismatic Church Self-Correct?
1:18:38 What Do You Do If You Know the Gifts Are Real But Keep Seeing Abuse?
1:20:39 Make Prophecy Local Again: The Story of Sally
1:23:36 Lecrae's Own Story: The Name He Kept Hearing
1:28:32 Specific Prayers, Legal Rights, and When You Have to Name the Thing
1:33:24 The Woman in Denmark Who Was Living in Sin (And Didn't Know It)
1:37:18 Can Regular Friends Pray for Your Deliverance?
1:38:27 Where to Find Michael Miller

For three seasons, people have been asking the same question: what does Lecrae's wife actually think about all of this?
She said no every time. Until now.
Darragh Moore has been behind the scenes since before the music, before the Grammys, before any of it. She engineered his first album, supported him through clinical depression, sent him to the BET Cipher while she was in labor, and kept the family grounded while the world got louder. She's never needed the spotlight, and that's exactly why this conversation matters.
This is the episode Lecrae's audience has been waiting three seasons for.
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In this episode Lecrae goes deep on the Iran conflict from a spiritual lens nobody else is using. Not political. Not partisan. Just honest wrestling from a believer trying to figure out what it means to follow Jesus in a world that's always at war.
He breaks down the four frameworks Christians use to think about war, pacifism, just war, Christian nationalism, and peacemaking, and applies each one to what's happening right now. He reacts to the military commanders calling this a holy war, the Crusades parallel nobody wants to talk about, the White House TikTok that made him emotional, and the fact that the fastest growing church in the world is in the country we're bombing.
This isn't a news episode. It's a soul check.
Topics covered: Christian ethics of war, just war theory, pacifism, Christian nationalism, Pete Hegseth, end times theology, Ezekiel 38-39, the Iranian underground church, Russell Moore, Wendell Berry, what war does to the people watching it, kingdom over nation.
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📱Connect with Lecrae - https://linktr.ee/Lecrae
📮 Join the conversation… Exclusive previews, discounts, bonus content, and more: https://deependwithlecrae.com/ Stream the Album: https://music.apple.com/us/album/reconstruction/1828052699
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Can demons read your minds? Do they possess people outright, or is it something more subtle? And what does any of this have to do with the Epstein files?
In Part 2 of this conversation, Lecrae and Dr. Joel Muddamalle go deeper into the unseen world, breaking down how demonic powers actually operate, what "entry points" really mean, and why the line between oppression and possession is less clear-cut than most Christians assume.
They also unpack Psalm 121, the geopolitical theology of Daniel 10, and why Paul's language for "powers and principalities" connects directly to the false gods of the Old Testament.
Plus, the underwater question you didn't see coming: outside of infidelity, is divorce ever justified?
Dr. Joel Muddamalle is the Director of Theology and Research at Proverbs 31 Ministries and the author of The Unseen Battle.
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📱Follow our new instagram! - https://www.instagram.com/deependlecr...
📱Connect with Lecrae - https://linktr.ee/Lecrae
📮 Join the conversation… Exclusive previews, discounts, bonus content, and more: https://deependwithlecrae.com/ Stream the Album: https://music.apple.com/us/album/reconstruction/1828052699
👕 Shop Lecrae Merch: https://lecrae.store/
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