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The Way Out Is In

Plum Village
The Way Out Is In
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  • Joanna Macy’s Message of Hope
    Dear friends, In memory of Joanna Macy, who passed away on July 19th, we are republishing episode #12 of The Way Out Is In podcast series, with an introduction by Jo Confino. A scholar of Buddhism, systems theory, and deep ecology, Joanna Macy (1929 -2025), PhD, was one of the most respected voices in the movements for peace, justice, and ecology. She interweaved her scholarship with learnings from six decades of activism, had written twelve books, and laught an empowerment approach known as the Work That Reconnects. In episode 12 (November, 2021), presenters Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and lay Buddhist practitioner and journalist Jo Confino were joined by Joanna Macy to discuss the relevance of Thich Nhat Hanh’s teachings to the crises we face today as a species; the energy of simplicity; truth-telling and the power of facing the truth; the grounds for transformation; impermanence; interbeing. Joanna recollects what Thich Nhat Hanh’s teachings and activism have meant to her, and shares a special meeting with him in the early 1980s, during a UN peace conference, when Thay read one of his essential poems in public for the first time. Joanna’s activism, forged during many campaigns, and her practice and study of Theravada Buddhism, shine through in her priceless advice about facing the current social and ecological crisis, grieving for all creation, and finding the power to deal with the heartbreaking present-day reality. She also addresses how grief and joy can coexist in one person, and how to be present for life even in the midst of struggle.Their conversations will take you from the current “great unravelling” and the “gift of death” to Rilke’s poetry; the magic of love as solution; active hope; the contemporary relevance of the ancient Prophecy of the Shambhala Warriors; the possibility of a “great turning”. And can you guess her aspirations at 92? Could a swing be just the perfect place to discuss the evanescence of life?Brother Phap Huu shares a lesson in patience from Thay, and adds to the teachings of touching suffering, recognizing and embracing the truth, consumption of consciousness, finding balance, and smiling at life.  Jo reads a special translation of one of Rainer Maria Rilke’s Duino Elegies, expands upon some of Joanna’s core books and philosophies, and recollects “irreplaceable” advice about overwork. The episode ends with a guided meditation by Joanna Macy. Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/ And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/ With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/ List of resources Lotus in a Sea of Fire (1967)https://plumvillage.org/books/1967-hoa-sen-trong-bien-lua-lotus-in-a-sea-of-fire/ Call Me By My True Nameshttps://plumvillage.org/books/call-me-by-my-true-names/ Celestial Bodhisattvashttps://www.encyclopedia.com/environment/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/buddhas-and-bodhisattvas-celestial-buddhas-and-bodhisattvas Rainer Maria Rilkehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainer_Maria_Rilke Duino Elegieshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duino_Elegies The Tenth Elegyhttps://www.tellthestory.co.uk/translatedpoemduino10.html The Book of Hourshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Hours Satipaṭṭhānahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satipatthana World as Lover, World as Selfhttps://www.parallax.org/product/world-as-lover-world-as-self-a-guide-to-living-fully-in-turbulent-times/ ‘The Shambhala Warrior’https://www.awakin.org/read/view.php?tid=236 The Shambhala Warrior Prophecyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14dbM93FALE Bardohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bardo ‘Entering the Bardo’https://emergencemagazine.org/op_ed/entering-the-bardo/ Maitreyahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitreya Ho Chi Minhhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh Śūnyatāhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%9A%C5%ABnyat%C4%81Svabhava https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svabhava Kṣitigarbhahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%E1%B9%A3itigarbha Parallax Presshttps://www.parallax.org/ Ānāpānasatihttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anapanasati Satipaṭṭhānahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satipatthana Quotes “Do not be afraid of feeling pain for the world. Do not be afraid of the suffering, but take it. That’s what a bodhisattva learns to do, and that makes your heart very big.” “Life is only difficult for those who pick and choose. You just take it. And that helps you feel whole, and maybe flying with the birds helps you be with the deep levels of hell. But this is life and it’s all given to us and it’s given free.” “It doesn’t take a poet; all of us can feel that there are times when a shadow passes over our mood and we taste the tears. Taste the tears. They’re salty. It’s the living Earth. We are part of this.” “All Rilke says is, ‘Give me the time so I can love the things.’ As if that’s the great commandment. So I want more time to do what I’m made to do. Why else do we have these hearts with more neurons in them than our brains? Why else are we given eyes that can see the beauty of this world and ears that can hear such beautiful poetry? And lungs that can breathe the air. We have to use these things for tasting and loving our world. And if she’s ailing, now is the time to love her more.” “You are the environment; the environment is not outside of you.” “We are in a space without a map. With the likelihood of economic collapse and climate catastrophe looming, it feels like we are on shifting ground, where old habits and old scenarios no longer apply. In Tibetan Buddhism, such a space or gap between known worlds is called a bardo. It is frightening. It is also a place of potential transformation. As you enter the bardo, there facing you is the Buddha Akshobhya. His element is Water. He is holding a mirror, for his gift is Mirror Wisdom, reflecting everything just as it is. And the teaching of Akshobhya’s mirror is this: Do not look away. Do not avert your gaze. Do not turn aside. This teaching clearly calls for radical attention and total acceptance.”“We all have an appointment, and that appointment is with life. And if we can touch that in each moment, our life will become more beautiful when we allow ourselves to arrive at that appointment.” “Even in despair, we have to enjoy life, because we see life as beautiful; [we see] that planet Earth is still a miracle.” “We know we are still alive, and because we are alive, anything is possible. So let us take care of the situation in a more calm and mindful way.” “Even wholesome things can become a distraction if you make them take the place of your sheer presence to life.” “Maybe this really will be the last chapter. But I’m here, and how fortunate I am to be here. And I have imagined that it’s so wonderful to be here.” “Impermanence: the fragrance of our day.”
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  • Spiritual Friendships (Episode #90)
    Welcome to episode 90 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives. In this installment, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino are joined by Nho Tran, a nun in the Plum Village tradition for 17 years now continuing her spiritual journey as a layperson.  Together, they explore the profound importance of spiritual friendship in the Buddhist tradition, while Brother Phap Huu and Nho reflect on the personal journey of their decades-long friendship. They discuss the teachings of Thich Nhat Hanh on the centrality of community and togetherness in cultivating joy, stability, and liberation; the challenges and growth experienced through friendship; and the importance of deep listening and being present for one another, which allows for vulnerability, honesty, and the freedom to be one’s authentic self. Bio Nho Tran is a scholar, facilitator, and former Buddhist nun in the Plum Village tradition of Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh. She spent many years living and practicing in monastic communities across Asia, Europe, and North America, where she cultivated a deep commitment to interbeing, cultural resilience, and the art of mindful living. Nho’s work sits at the intersection of conflict transformation, ethics, and systems thinking. Drawing on her monastic formation and experience across diverse sectors, she supports individuals and communities in navigating difficult conversations, fostering cultural change, and reimagining leadership grounded in compassion and collective wisdom. She holds a joint degree in Cognitive Neuroscience and Religion from the University of Southern California, a Master of Divinity from Harvard Divinity School, and an MA from Harvard University. She is currently a PhD candidate at Harvard’s Graduate School of Arts and Sciences, where her research explores the intersections of religion, ethics, governance, and Vietnamese Buddhist history. Nho teaches negotiation, ethics, and conflict resolution at Harvard, and continues to serve as a bridge between contemplative practice and social transformation. Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/ And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/ With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/ List of resources Live show: The Way Out Is In podcast with special guest Ocean Vuong plumvillage.uk/livepodcastOcean Vuonghttps://www.oceanvuong.com/Interbeinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing Ānanda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%80nanda Pali Canonhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pali_Canon The Three Marks of Existencehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_marks_of_existence The Miracle of Mindfulness https://plumvillage.shop/products/books/personal-growth-and-self-care/the-miracle-of-mindfulness-2/ Marahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara_(demon)Brother Spirithttps://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/brother-phap-linhThich Nhat Hanh: Redefining the Four Noble Truthshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eARDko51XdwMaitreyahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitreya Quotes “When we receive a Dharma name, it is almost like a trust that we’re receiving. It is also the intention that a teacher sees our potential in it. And it’s something that is given to us to practice for our whole life.” “Learn to befriend yourself first, and then learn to be a friend of many.” “Spiritual friendship is the whole of the spiritual path. It is the entirety of the spirit path.” “Monk, you have to have a good friendship. You have to have good conversations. You have to have good deeds. You have to have good efforts. And then you have a grasp on impermanence.” “The joy of meditation is daily food.” “One of our teacher Thay’s realizations was that our deepest suffering is loneliness, and it comes from the wrong views of what success is, which is individualistic.” “Reverence is the nature of my love.” “In true love, there’s freedom.” “True love is being present.” “Understanding is another word for love.” “Mindfulness always has to have an object.” “There are ways in which, when people hear, ‘Oh, in true love, there is freedom’, they will be like, ‘Oh, freedom means I can do whatever I want.’ There’s a sort of recklessness. And that’s not the type of freedom I’m talking about. I’m talking about some real, raw, internal stuff, where I can show up in this relationship and he can show up in this relationship in his undefended self.” “We have to expand our hearts and our way of being to bring people in, because we need friends.” “Thay said that even if you’re an activist and you’re saving people’s lives and you’re building humanity and rebuilding villages, if you’re doing it from a place of self, of pride and ego: don’t do it. Enter into interbeing; do this because you see them as you, then you can be ‘in service of’.” “A true friend is someone who understands your suffering, who listens deeply without judging and who is capable of being there with you in difficult moments. They don’t try to fix you, they simply sit with you, in mindfulness. This kind of presence is rare and it is a great gift. When you find such a friend, cherish them, because they help you touch the peace and freedom that are already within you.” “The greatest technology we have is each other. These relationships that we have with each other, we keep seeking something else. But the thing that makes us feel like we are living a meaningful life is being seen and acknowledged and recognized by the gaze of another person, the loving gaze of another person.” “The most powerful spiritual technology is the coming together.” “I tell people to come to Plum Village, but not to try to learn something. Come here just to be. Because I think our thirst for ‘a fix’ is so powerful now. We’re looking for a spiritual teaching to fix us; we’re looking to fix all of our suffering. And guess what? Some of your suffering, you might not be able to fix it.”
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  • The Three Jewels (Episode #89)
    Welcome to episode 89 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives. In this installment, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino look at one of the foundational teachings of Buddhism: the Three Jewels – the Buddha, the Dharma, and the Sangha. The Buddha is the teacher who, through his own direct experience, found the path to liberation from suffering. The Dharma refers to the teachings and practices that lead to awakening. The Sangha is the community that supports and transmits the Dharma. Their conversation emphasizes the Sangha’s importance as the community that keeps the Buddha’s teachings alive and relevant; the need for communities rooted in the Dharma, with clear practices and guidelines to provide refuge and support spiritual transformation; and more. As usual, the hosts provide examples from their own experiences, as well as stories by or involving Thich Nhat Hanh. Enjoy! Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/  And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/ With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/ List of resources Donate to support Plum Village’s reconstruction https://plumvillage.org/donate Interbeinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing Sister Chan Khonghttps://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khongSister Chan Duchttps://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sr-chan-duc Fragrant Palm Leaves: Journals 1962-1966https://plumvillage.org/books/1998-neo-ve-cua-y-fragrant-palm-leavesNalanda mahaviharahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda_mahavihara Buddhahoodhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhahood Dharma Talks: ‘The Five Skandhas of Grasping and Non-Self​’https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-five-skandhas-of-grasping-and-non-self%E2%80%8B-dharma-talk-by-br-phap-lai-2018-06-08 Old Path White Cloudshttps://plumvillage.org/books/old-path-white-clouds-2 ‘The Fourteen Mindfulness Trainings’https://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/the-14-mindfulness-trainings Wake Up Networkhttps://plumvillage.org/community/wake-up-young-practitioners Vinayahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinaya The Hermit and the Wellhttps://plumvillage.org/books/hermit-and-the-well Quotes “When we talk about the first jewel, the Buddha, we have to understand that each and every one of us has Buddha nature.” “Where’s my Buddha nature? My Buddha nature is my mindfulness shining in, shining out, shining near, shining far.” “The relationship between teacher and student is companionship on the path. If a teacher understands that his true belonging and his true continuation is his students, then he would do everything in his, her, or their capacity to transmit their wisdom. So the Buddha Jewel is to acknowledge that this tradition has a root teacher. And it comes from direct experience and embraces and embodies the awakened nature that each and every one of us has. A good teacher, a good Buddha, can allow us to touch our Buddha nature.” “Buddhism doesn’t mean ignoring your own traditional religious roots. And, as it’s not considered a religion, that Buddha nature can exist alongside your religious history. So if you’re Jewish or Christian, you don’t need to say, ‘Oh, I’m a Buddhist’; you can continue with your own traditions. And Thay said that it’s so important to stay rooted in your traditions, because that is your individual ancestry. And buddhahood doesn’t contradict that, doesn’t overlay it, but actually comes alongside it to support it.” “Our faith drives our practice. And our practice and the insights we get from our practice drive our faith.” “Buddha nature is ever-growing. It is very organic, it is conditioned.”
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  • The Four Immeasurable Minds (Episode #88)
    Welcome to episode 88 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives. In this installment, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino discuss one of the Buddha’s key teachings: the four immeasurable minds. When cultivated, these four qualities – love, compassion, joy, and equanimity – can help heal negative emotions and lead to a more fulfilling, compassionate life. Both hosts share personal stories and insights about how to apply these teachings, and how to help transform suffering and cultivate a deeper understanding and connection with ourselves and those around us. They emphasize the importance of self-love, deep listening, and embracing interbeing, as well as the power of small acts of kindness, the role of playfulness, the wisdom of non-discrimination in leading a more fulfilling life, and more. Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/   And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/ With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/ List of resources Donate to support Plum Village’s reconstruction https://plumvillage.org/donate Interbeinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing The Four Immeasurable Mindshttps://tnhaudio.org/tag/four-immeasurable-minds Dharma Talk: ‘The Four Immeasurable Minds – The Four Elements of True Love’ with Sister Dieu Nghiem (Sister Jina)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKXJIdhJJHo Brahmaviharahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmavihara Sariputrahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%9A%C4%81riputra Sister Chan Khonghttps://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khong Maitrihttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitr%C4%AB Order of Interbeinghttps://orderofinterbeing.org/ Trevor Noahhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trevor_Noah ‘Listening to Namo Avalokiteshvara’https://plumvillage.app/listening-to-namo-avalokiteshvara/ Upekshahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upeksha_(Indian_thought) Quotes “If you learn to practice love, compassion, joy, and equanimity, you will know how to heal the illnesses of anger, sorrow, insecurity, sadness, hatred, loneliness, and unhealthy attachments.” “You have to learn to be like the Earth. The Earth doesn’t discriminate; it accepts all and is the mother of all.” “Understanding is love, and it’s the most profound love because, when you understand, there’s no longer a barrier between you and me as separate people.” “The safest foundation is understanding. When you have that, you can work tirelessly because your understanding is your compass. And it can give you so much insight and so many ways of bridging the separation.” “One word can release suffering, one action can save a life.” “Looking with eyes of compassion, we can listen deeply to the cries of the world.” “There is a truth in Buddhism that, no matter what condition you’re going to find yourself in, suffering’s going to be there; your mind is going to create moments of ‘you’re not enough’.” “Why not be soft? There is so much strength in softness.” “Thay talked about how we can find joy in everything, that we can find joy in a pebble on the beach, we can find joy in a flower. We can find joy in someone’s smile. We can find joy in the fact that we’re alive. We can find joy in the fact that we can see all the textures and colors in the world. It doesn’t have to be a big thing, but it is the recognition of what it is to be alive.” “I love the idea that one smile from somebody can restore our faith in humanity. Often, we think we have to act in big ways; that we have to carry out bold actions to create change. But one smile can genuinely save someone’s life. As Thay said, one small action can save a life; even a smile can change a life. We underestimate the power of the small things in life. We’re taught to see things in grand ways, but, often, seeing things in the small ways can be more important.” “Non-discrimination is the wisdom that we all are children of this Earth and we manifest on this Earth and we will return to the Earth.” “We should never be too sure of ourselves, our views, and our feeling of righteousness, because that only leads to more division.” “When you touch these elements of true love, loving kindness, compassion, and joy, your interbeing becomes stronger. Because if you have joy and you’ve tasted it, don’t you want others to have joy?” “Non-discrimination is for the more-than-human world as well; it’s for all beings. Because it’s very easy to separate ourselves from the natural world and to forget that, actually, the health of the trees is our health and the health of the oceans is our health; that, actually, the love that Mother Earth gives to us is also the love that we can offer back. So there’s a real feeling of reciprocity there.”
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  • The Noble Eightfold Path (Episode #87)
    Welcome to episode 87 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives. In this installment, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach/journalist Jo Confino discuss the Noble Eightfold Path, a fundamental teaching that was emphasized by the Buddha. The eight elements of the path are: right view, right thinking, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right diligence, right mindfulness, and right concentration. The hosts focus on each element and explain their interconnectedness and how they form a comprehensive approach to self-discovery, personal transformation, and spiritual development. Jo and Brother Phap Huu also emphasise the importance of making the Noble Eightfold Path relevant, accessible, and applicable to contemporary challenges and needs, and the role of Plum Village community in adapting these teachings.The episode ends with a short meditation guided by Brother Phap Huu. Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/   And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/ With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/ List of resources Interbeinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing Dhyana in Buddhism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhyana_in_Buddhism The Bodhi Treehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhi_tree Dharma Talks: ‘Right Livelihood and True Love’https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/right-livelihood-and-true-love 51 Mental Formationshttps://plumvillage.org/transcriptions/51-mental-formation The Way Out Is In: ‘Taming Our Survival Instinct (Episode #65)’https://plumvillage.org/podcast/taming-our-survival-instinct-episode-65 Sister Lang Nghiemhttps://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sr-lang-nghiem Sister True Dedicationhttps://www.instagram.com/sistertruededication/ Brother Phap Ung https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/brother-chan-phap-ung  The Five Mindfulness Trainings https://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/the-5-mindfulness-trainings The Fourteen Mindfulness Trainingshttps://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/the-14-mindfulness-trainings  Old Path White Clouds https://plumvillage.org/books/old-path-white-clouds-2 Quotes “The question is whether you want to liberate yourself or not. If you do, practice the Noble Eightfold Path.” “‘Now I have a path, there’s nothing to fear’ – because once you have the path, even if suffering is there, you will know how to walk it, because you start to see the way.” “The Buddha said that there are two extreme paths that we should avoid. The first one is seeking sensual pleasures, the pleasures of the world. The second is the practice of depriving the body, such as the practice of asceticism. Those extremes do not lead towards happiness and peace, they lead to failure on the path of understanding and love. And he said we have to find a middle way. And the middle is the Eight Noble Path.” “What we see, what we hear, what we taste, and what we consume on a daily basis will affect the way we are thinking. So, by focusing and practicing right thought, you will start to have a lot of agency. You will start to reflect on how your thought patterns are created, what habits arise in your daily life because of your thoughts, because of the ingredients that have been taken in through your eyes, ears, nose, tongue, and mind consciousness.” “We do workshops on learning how to listen before even speaking. How to listen with our whole body, how to listen so that we don’t react, how to listen so we don’t allow our judgmental mind to try to fix that person right away. And then to mindfully select the words that we want to use to communicate. Even if it’s a wrong perception, there’s a way to communicate, to remove the wrong perception – or there’s a way to justify it and create even more distance and destruction.” “When we learn to expand our understanding, I think our life will become richer.” “There are pathways in life via which we know we can get richer and become filled with wealth. But what is our truest belonging? It’s not money. When we die, money doesn’t go with us. What is left behind is our legacy of who we were as a human being.” “I remember a soldier asking Thay [Thich Nhat Hanh] about how he can apply this pathway to his career, as a protector. And Thay said, ‘Of course we want compassionate soldiers. I would rather have you holding that weapon, who has deep understanding and has interbeing, than someone who is evil and who just wants to punish or be violent.’” “Sometimes we talk about the Zen mind as a mind that is empty. That’s not it. In the Buddhist deep meaning of emptiness, emptiness is ‘very full’; because of emptiness, everything can coexist.” “Mindful first and foremost is to be mindful of the suffering that is present, as well as mindful of the joy and happiness that is also present. So we want to continue to transform suffering as well as to create and generate joy and happiness, for ourselves and for all beings.” “Concentration can be grounded and developed everywhere, anywhere, and all at once.” “What Buddhism does, and what the teachings of the Buddha do, is show that we have a choice in everything we do. Because often we feel that life is imposed on us, that we don’t have choices. But, actually, in every single event, however painful, we always have a choice of how to respond. And that choice is based on our awareness. We need to be aware of what is going on, what the situation is. We need to be aware of our habit energy, and then we need to be aware of these teachings that show an alternative.” “We have our entire life to learn and we don’t have to be perfect now. But, as Thich Nhat Hanh would say, if there’s a little bit of improvement every day, that is more than enough. We don’t need to become suddenly enlightened.” “The exponential nature of technology, with AI and everything else, means that, actually, it’s easier to travel away from ourselves than towards ourselves.”
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Over The Way Out Is In

This podcast series is aimed at helping us to transcend our fear and anger so that we can be more engaged in the world in a way that develops love and compassion. Thich Nhat Hanh’s calligraphy ‘The Way Out Is In” highlights that the way out of any difficulty is to look deeply within, gain insights and then put them into practice. "The Way Out is In" is co-hosted by Brother Phap Huu, Thich Nhat Hanh's personal attendant for 17 years and the abbot of Plum Village's Upper Hamlet, and Jo Confino, who works at the intersection of personal transformation and systems change. The podcast is co-produced by the Plum Village App and Global Optimism, with support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation.
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