Rosenfeld Review Podcast

As AI makes it easier to turn ideas into working products, designers have an opportunity to rethink where their responsibilities begin and end. Lou talks with David Siren Eisner, author of the forthcoming Product Design Engineering: A Designer’s Guide to Building and Shipping Code with AI, about how AI is reshaping the boundaries between design and engineering.

David explains why traditional handoffs often create friction, lose valuable context, and slow product development. As roles blur, he sees opportunities for designers to take greater ownership of features from initial research through implementation, while teams rethink how they collaborate and maintain quality.

For designers wondering where to begin, David offers practical advice, which his book details: learn the fundamentals of engineering workflows, start with small coding projects, and build confidence through experimentation. Rather than turning designers into engineers, product design engineering extends the creative process, allowing designers to use code as another material for bringing their ideas to life.

David's book arrives in November 2026.

 

What You'll Learn from this Episode:

What product design engineering is and how it builds on traditional design practices

Why maintaining context across design and development reduces friction

How blurring roles are changing team structures and feature ownership

Why faster development requires stronger quality standards and upfront alignment

How designers can get started with coding, Git, and engineering workflows

Why coding can be a creative extension of design rather than a separate discipline

 

Quick Reference Guide:
0:10 - Meet David and learn about his new book, Product Design Engineering: A Designer’s Guide to Building and Shipping Code with AI 

4:18 - Maintaining context across design and development reduces friction 

8:32 - Reducing context handoffs by rethinking design and engineering boundaries 

11:48 - Redefining team boundaries around features rather than roles 

14:25 - Establishing design quality standards and aligning before building 

18:56 - Bloomberg LP’s UX team is hiring

20:08 - Getting designers started with coding through engineering fundamentals and hands-on practice

26:33 - Using code as a creative design tool, not just an engineering skill 

29:58 - David’s gift for listeners

 

Resources and Links from Today's Episode:
Product Design Engineering: A Designer’s Guide to Building and Shipping Code with AI by David Siren Eisner

Bloomberg LP’s UX team is hiring

Evolve Digital - November 19, 2026

 

Quotes:
“A lot of the work that we do is best served by someone that can maintain context all the way across.” 

“If engineering is doing 4x, 10x, you know, 100x, the output that they're doing, making sure you're building the right thing to keep up with the speed of building is so important.” 

“For so many years, we could create stuff, but we couldn't actually build it.” 

“It's not about being in code and coding all the time, it's really about expressing my design thinking.”

What if researchers could learn as much from what people do with their hands as from what they say? Lou talks with Dane DeSutter and Stephanie Scopelitis, authors of the forthcoming Body Talk: Using Gestures to Rethink Human-Centered Products, about the overlooked role gestures play in research, communication, and design.

Drawing on backgrounds spanning learning science, dance, music, and product research, Dane and Stephanie explain how gestures can reveal mental models, clarify ideas that are difficult to put into words, and give researchers new opportunities to dig deeper. Rather than relying on intuition alone, they argue that researchers can learn to observe gestures systematically—and use their own gestures intentionally to support richer interactions.

Through examples involving everything from justice to data integration, they show how paying closer attention to the body can uncover insights that words alone might miss—and ultimately help designers create products that make more sense to the people using them.

 

What You'll Learn from this Episode:

Why gestures offer a window into how people think

How gestures can reveal mental models that words may not capture

How researchers can observe gestures more systematically

Why context and culture matter when interpreting gestures

How gestures can help researchers ask better follow-up questions

How understanding embodied behavior can lead to better product design

 

Quick Reference Guide:
0:11 - Meet Dane DeSutter and Stephanie Scopelitis and get an overview of their book, Body Talk

3:25 - Gestures in the UX world

6:53 - The ah-ha moment that made Dane take a closer look at gestures

9:15 - The influence of dance on Stephanie’s work

11:33 - Sign language vs gestures

13:19 - Gestures in the podcast studio

15:11 - We are all students of body language

19:03 - 15% off on Rosenfeld Media book preorders

20:26 - An example from teaching 

24:49 - An example from product design and development 

26:54 - Using gestures to reveal mental models and deepen understanding 

30:42 - Offering and interpreting gestures

33:39 - Dane & Stephanie’s gifts for listeners

37:10 - Why you should try the Rosenverse

 

Resources and Links from Today's Episode:
Body Talk: Using Gestures to Rethink Human-Centered Products by Dane DeSutter and Stephanie Scopelitis https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/body-talk/

The Supplement to the Italian Dictionary by Bruno Munari
https://corraini.com/products/supplemento-al-dizionario-italiano

Solitary Confinement: Social Death and Its Afterlives by Lisa Guenther https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.5749/j.ctt4cggj8

The Inside-Out Center https://insideoutcenter.org/

The Rosenverse https://rosenverse.rosenfeldmedia.com/

 

Quotes:
“A big part of how [engineers] interact with one another is in gesture.” —Dane 

“The body [is] a bridge. It’s a bridge between the person and the experience, a bridge between the past and the future.” — Dane 

“We use our bodies to communicate, to think through things, to shape our interactions all the time.” — Stephanie 

“This is a way to see into the mind.” — Dane 

“If you can understand how people think, you can design for them, you can create products that make sense to them.” — Dane 

“Looking at gestures as a window into the mind… that’s where the richness comes from.” — Stephanie

As organizations race to automate with AI, the most important question may not be what machines can do, but what they should do. Lou talks with cognitive neuroscientist and UX researcher Stef Hutka, author of the forthcoming Rosenfeld Media book What Your Machines Should Do: The Science and Strategy of Human-Centered Automation, about how teams can make more thoughtful decisions about automation.

Stef introduces the Autonomy Decision Matrix, a framework that asks teams to evaluate automation along two dimensions: Could you automate it? and Should you automate it? Using examples from augmented reality and AI-powered customer service, she explains why technical feasibility alone isn’t enough — and how shared frameworks can help leaders and practitioners make better decisions together.

The conversation ultimately makes the case for “humanist automation”: using technology to extend human capabilities rather than simply replace people. Stef will continue exploring that idea as a curator of the human-centered tooling track at Rosenfeld Media’s upcoming Shift UX 2026, where she and the speakers will examine how our tools are reshaping not only products, but organizations, communities, and society.

 

What You'll Learn from this Episode:

Why “could we automate?” and “should we automate?” are different questions

How the Autonomy Decision Matrix guides automation decisions

Why augmentation can be more valuable than replacing people

How shared frameworks help leaders and practitioners discuss AI

What “humanist automation” means in practice

How designers can think beyond today’s tools toward longer-term consequences

 

Quick Reference Guide:
0:18 - Meet Stef

3:30 - Augmented reality – should we?

5:23 - The reality of the cost of augmented reality suits

7:17 - Augmenting human capability or replacing it?

8:47 - A basic framework, the Autonomy Decision Matrix, for a thoughtful, less risky approach

12:16 - Early conversations in the automation space are important

14:29 - Bloomberg LP

15:46 - Fleshing out the Autonomy Decision Matrix - a case study with Klarna

20:50 - The people who should be having these ADM conversations

22:48 - Humanist automation

24:57 - Steph’s role in Shift UX 2026

29:20 - Stef’s gift for listeners

Resources and Links from Today's Episode:
Bloomberg LP’s open positions https://www.bloomberg.com/company/what-we-do/ux/

Shift UX 2026 https://shiftux.rosenfeldmedia.com/

What Your Machines Should Do: The Science and Strategy of Human-Centered Automation by Stefanie Hutka https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/what-your-machines-should-do/

 

Quotes:
“There's a lot of ‘We can do it,’ but should we? And this ‘should we?’ is not always the strongest justification.”

“What are you doing automation in service of?”

“Humans are doing the steering. It's not AI steering, and we're in the backseat.”

“Who decides what is that preferred state, and what is our role as UX practitioners?”

What if uncertainty isn’t something UX professionals need to survive — but an opportunity to reshape what comes next? Catt Small and Lou explore how designers can reclaim agency at a moment when familiar roles, tools, and assumptions about the industry are shifting. Drawing on her own evolution from web designer to staff designer, Catt argues that career paths aren’t fixed: designers can identify where they bring the most value and help shape roles around their strengths.

Catt and Lou discuss why today’s upheaval isn’t entirely new, how experimentation can help designers navigate ambiguity, and why the optimism that once surrounded technology has become more complicated. They also explore design’s role within the realities of business—and why making things better sometimes means slowing down, adding friction, asking harder questions, and helping organizations make more thoughtful decisions.

Catt, who will open the inaugural Shift UX conference, ultimately offers a hopeful message: even in uncertain times, designers have agency—and uncertainty can be an ideal time to make meaningful moves.

What You'll Learn from this Episode:

How to shape a design career around your strengths rather than a prescribed path

Why agency matters when roles, tools, and expectations are changing

How today’s UX uncertainty echoes earlier periods of industry transformation

Why designers increasingly help organizations explore possibilities and make better decisions

How business realities complicate the goal of designing for people

Why uncertainty can create opportunities to experiment, advocate, and make meaningful career moves

Quick Reference Guide:
0:10 – Meet Cat Small (and her kittens), and learn about Cat and Lou’s ground rules for their conversation

3:27 - The career ladder is made up, so we should feel free to change it

7:26 - Embracing constant evolution rather than resisting change

10:20 - Advice for embracing change: know yourself

13:26 - Lessons gleaned from others

16:39 - A sale on book pre-orders

17:38 - UX returns to experimentation 

21:28 - Tech’s optimism vs harder questions about progress and impact 

24:47 - Designing for people while navigating the realities of business 

26:57 - Shifting from removing friction to facilitating better decisions 

29:32 - Finding agency and making meaningful moves 

31:02 - About Shift UX 2026

32:08 - Kat’s gift for the audience

 

Resources and Links from Today's Episode:
Imani House https://www.imanihouse.org/

Judd Legum’s Popular Info https://popular.info/about

Shift UX 2026 https://shiftux.rosenfeldmedia.com/

NTS Radio https://www.nts.live/radio

 

Quotes:
“We don’t have to be told what kind of job we should have.” 

“It’s a sign of leadership when you know yourself and how to best bring value to the team.” 

“Times of uncertainty are a great time to make moves.”

As UX roles and titles continue to shift, the ability to make sense of complexity may matter more than ever. Lou talks with information architect, author, and longtime collaborator Abby Covert about how her work evolved from information architecture into the broader practice of sensemaking—and why she believes that work extends far beyond people with “IA” in their job titles.

Abby also offers a preview of Shift UX, Rosenfeld Media’s hybrid conference on September 24–25, where she is one of the main curators. She explains how the event itself is being redesigned to move away from “design theater”: speakers will share the stage, dedicated sensemakers will connect ideas across talks, and the audience will become part of the conversation.

The conversation explores Abby’s Sensemakers Club, the importance of creating genuine community, and her new book, Timeless Sensemaking for Modern Sensemakers. Throughout, Abby makes the case that sensemaking isn’t simply about organizing information—it’s also about understanding people, adapting how we communicate, and helping others turn complexity into something they can actually use.

 

What You'll Learn from this Episode:

How information architecture led Abby to the broader practice of sensemaking

Why UX skills may outlast traditional UX roles and titles

How Shift UX is rethinking the traditional conference experience

Why sensemaking is personal—and looks different for everyone

How intentional discussion can turn connection into genuine community

Why adapting how you communicate can make your work more effective

 

Quick Reference Guide:
0:16 - Meet Abby

2:29 - Sense-making as part of information architecture; placemaking vs sensemaking

5:31 - More on the term sensemaking

9:46 - More on placemaking; moving away from performance and toward disclosure; experience design

16:09 - 15% off on two books: What Your Machine Should Do by Stephanie Hutko and Body Talk by Dane Sutter and Stephanie Scopolitis

17:17 - Sensemaking is personal

19:11 - What sensemaking will look like at the Shift UX conference

21:22 - Sensemakers Club and Abby’s book

26:27 - More on Abby’s book

30:34 - Abby’s gift for listeners

31:33 - Check out the Rosenverse

 

Resources and Links from Today's Episode:
How to Make Sense of Any Mess by Abby Covert https://abbycovert.com/make-sense/

Shift UX - September 24-25, 2026 https://shiftux.rosenfeldmedia.com/

Timeless Sensemaking for Modern Sensemakers by Abby Covert https://abbycovert.com/sensemaking/

Extra Bold, Feminist, Inclusive, Anti-Racist, Non-Binary Field Guide for Graphic Designers by Ellen Lupton, Farah Kafei, Jennifer Tobias, Josh A. Halstead, Kaleena Sales, Leslie Xia, Valentina Vergara https://papress.com/products/extra-bold

Quotes:
“I've come to understand sensemaking as a part of information architecture.”

“Information is sketchy when you look at it as a material that we wield.” 

“The stage is becoming sort of like this central gathering space, more like a meeting house and less like a theater production.”

“Sensemaking is an incredibly personal process.”