How To Citizen with Baratunde

Recorded live at The Conduit in London in September 2024, Baratunde and Elizabeth Stewart sit down with their friend and longtime collaborator Jon Alexander, author of CITIZENS and co-host of the podcast How To Save Democracy, for a conversation about citizen as a verb: the radical, hopeful idea that democracy isn't something we have, it's something we do.
They get into the story we inherited about independence, the older and truer story about interdependence, the four pillars of citizening, and why a moment when so much feels like it's collapsing is exactly the moment to start building.
The timing is no accident. On Saturday, June 13, 2026 Jon takes the TED Democracy stage in Philadelphia at the birthplace of American independence, during America's 250th, to make the case for interdependence. A British man crossing the Atlantic to tell us the move is getting back together.
Keep practicing democracy. The verb, not the noun.
CHAPTERS
00:00:00 "We're gonna need some builders" (cold open)
00:02:11 Welcome to How To Save Democracy
00:02:45 How this London night came together
00:03:40 Citizen as a verb, and the shift from head to heart
00:05:40 Latent love: citizen, not consumer
00:07:25 Story as the most powerful technology we have
00:09:45 Consumer democracy and the only restaurant in town
00:10:59 Why the vote still matters
00:12:06 Head, heart, and gut
00:16:24 Co-authors of this world: nature, each other, machines
00:20:29 The four pillars, one at a time
00:21:00 Pillar 1 - Invest in relationships (including with yourself)
00:29:45 Pillar 2 - Understand power (and your attention)
00:33:35 Pillar 3 - Commit to the collective (Bahrain and Broadband Bruce)
00:44:10 Pillar 4 - Show up and participate
00:44:25 Questions from the room
00:46:42 Belonging, authoritarianism, and the case for builders
00:49:38 Burnout, rupture, and repair
00:52:35 Doomsday Preppers: two ways to survive
00:54:10 How might we live together, period
00:56:35 Citizens, not just consumers
LINKS
How To Save Democracy with Omezzine Khelifa & Jon Alexander: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-to-save-democracy/id1823945285
American Indigenous Democracy: A Call for Interdependence — the book from Haudenosaunee elders and wisdom keepers: https://americanindigenousdemocracy.com
Jon Alexander / CITIZENS: https://jonalexander.net
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sacred Lessons: Masculinity, AI, and the Great Law of Peace (with Mike de la Rocha)
What if the story we inherited — that being a man, or a nation, means holding it all together alone — is exactly backwards?
Recorded live at the BOOST Conference in Baratunde's adopted hometown of Palm Springs, this is his conversation with Mike de la Rocha on Mike's podcast Sacred Lessons. They get into masculinity and America's founding story, the doctrine that justified conquest, and the much older democratic wisdom that was already here: the Haudenosaunee Great Law of Peace, and what changes when you put peace, care, and women at the center of how we govern ourselves. Then they follow it into the present: broken men in power, the men building our AI, and whether this technology pulls us apart or finally forces us to reconnect.
Before you listen: Baratunde is co-hosting a virtual gathering, Declaring Interdependence, with Valarie Kaur and Indigenous elders José Barreiro and Katsi Cook on Tuesday, June 9 (5pm PT / 8pm ET) — the live companion to everything in this episode. Register below.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Welcome back — and an invitation to Declaring Interdependence
03:49 Sacred Lessons begins: the story we inherit about being a man
07:31 America's big awkward birthday party
08:07 The country as a story — and the doctrine of discovery
10:20 The Haudenosaunee and the Great Law of Peace
16:55 The book: American Indigenous Democracy
19:25 The five principles, starting with women at the center
24:34 Spirit, the unseen, and what his mother taught him
29:30 Practicing interdependence (yes, even with the moths)
31:07 Broken men, power, and refusing to mirror the cruelty
36:55 AI, Elon, and the trap of control
44:25 A better use of the tech: self-knowledge as a shield
48:14 Living with AI: agency vs. power
55:25 For the young man who idolizes the billionaire
57:55 Prepping for the apocalypse — with guns, or with neighbors
01:01:50 From a declaration of independence to interdependence
01:02:39 The Sacred Five
01:13:00 Closing: the book, June 9, and what's next on the feed
LINKS
Declaring Interdependence (virtual, June 9, 5pm PT / 8pm ET): https://www.eventbrite.com/e/declaring-interdependence-a-gathering-for-the-250th-tickets-1990529062008
American Indigenous Democracy: A Call for Interdependence (foreword by Baratunde): https://americanindigenousdemocracy.com
Sacred Lessons with Mike de la Rocha: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-sacred-lessons-with-mike-304426528/
Life With Machines: https://lifewithmachines.media
Everything Baratunde: https://baratunde.com
Recorded live at the BOOST Conference. Next up on the feed: my friend Jon Alexander, ahead of his turn on TED's democracy stage in Philadelphia.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Baratunde returns to the How To Citizen feed with a conversation that sits right at the intersection of character, democracy, and what it means to citizen in this moment.
This episode features Baratunde in a live discussion with retired U.S. General Stanley McChrystal at the 2025 Masters of Scale Summit in San Francisco. The two dig into the responsibility of leaders in a time of democratic crisis, the historic norms around deploying the U.S. military inside American cities, and why character is not something we simply “have” but something we practice.
They talk about the pressures facing the country, the role of national service, and how AI is changing the speed and stakes of decision-making in military and civic life. Stan shares candid reflections from his own experiences, including moments when he fell short of the character he expected from himself, and what it takes to recover and stay aligned with one’s convictions.
This conversation originally aired on the Rapid Response podcast from the Masters of Scale network. Special thanks to their team for allowing it to run here.
Baratunde closes with reflections on the polycrisis we’re living through, the people who continue to speak up for what’s right, and the power we still have to shape the next chapter of this country.
For more from Baratunde, see his substack newsletter.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is our wrap of our Week of Citizening that I've been doing with Jon Alexander. We found 8 stories from across the U.S. — across sectors, communities, and divides — where people are coming together to make life better, together. See them all here.
See the visuals for this story and all our Week of Citizening stories here: https://linktr.ee/weekofcitizening
Join our mailing list and share the stories you’re seeing. stories.howtocitizen.com
The story is everywhere.

It’s happening in libraries, tech hubs, small towns, and fire-stricken neighborhoods.
It’s happening in real politics, real businesses, and real lives.
It’s what humans do — when given the chance.

🌎 We believe it’s time to tell a bigger, truer story about who we are.
💥 We’re just getting started — and we need you with us.

👉🏽 Sign up to get all 8 films + hear what’s next.

Let’s tell this story. Let’s be this story.
Video Produced by: Chilli.app and Summer Solstice
Week of Citizening Collaborators: Baratunde Thurston, Jon Alexander, Shira Abramowitz, Elizabeth Stewart
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

There is a model for how we rebuild and heal after the human-made disaster being inflicted on the USA right now. Welcome to Dena Heals—a mutual aid marketplace and wellness center born in the aftermath of the Eaton Fire in Altadena.
See the visuals for this story and all our Week of Citizening stories here:
https://newsletter.baratunde.com/p/this-is-how-we-recover-from-disasters
This is our final story (for now) in the Week Of Citizening. Join our mailing list and share the stories you’re seeing. stories.howtocitizen.com
When the 💩 hits the fan, we are told people become selfish and look after themselves alone. Every disaster ever proves otherwise including after the most devastating fire to hit Los Angeles. Something extraordinary took root. Not fear. Not isolation. But care for each other.
Rebecca Solnit said it well: “When all the ordinary divides and patterns are shattered, people step up—not all, but the great preponderance—to become their brothers’ keepers. And that purposefulness and connectedness brings joy even amidst death, chaos, fear and loss.”
Rooted in Indigenous wisdom and the Black Panther 10-Point Program, Dena Heals is a blueprint for what happens when we lead with love, show up for each other, and practice power together.
They’ve supported 3,500+ people from over 500 families. This is what it looks like to citizen in the midst of disaster. Not with despair—but with collective action, healing, and hope.
We saved this story for last in our Week Of Citizening series because it reflects all the pillars of How to Citizen:
🌱 Show up & participate
⚡ Understand power
🤝 Commit to the collective
❤️ Invest in relationships (including nature)
This is how we rise. This is how we rebuild. This is how we citizen. Happy Earth Day
Sign up to share and discover more stories like this: https://stories.howtocitizen.com
Video Produced by: Revolve Impact
Week of Citizening Collaborators: Baratunde Thurston, Jon Alexander, Shira Abramowitz, Elizabeth Stewart
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.