Interviews with world-class product leaders and growth experts to uncover concrete, actionable, and tactical advice to help you build, launch, and grow your own...
Building Wiz: the fastest-growing startup in history | Raaz Herzberg (CMO and VP Product Strategy)
Raaz Herzberg is the chief marketing officer and VP of product strategy at Wiz. Wiz hit $100 million ARR within 18 months (the fastest growth in startup history) and, five years in, is generating over $500 million ARR. It also serves over 45% of the Fortune 100. Raaz was one of the first five employees at Wiz, joining as the first product manager, and helped the team pivot to what may be the most intense PMF in history. Before Wiz, Raaz led security products at Microsoft, including Azure Sentinel. In our conversation, we discuss:• How Wiz pivoted from their initial idea and found deep product-market fit• What Raaz learned about listening to customers• Why she moved from product to marketing, despite no prior experience• How she thinks differently as a marketer with a product background• Lessons learned from scaling a hypergrowth startup like Wiz• Much more—Brought to you by:• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs• Rippling—Automate HR, IT, and finance so you can scale faster• Cloudinary—The foundational technology for all images and video on the internet—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-wiz-raaz-herzberg—Where to find Raaz Herzberg:• X: https://x.com/raazherzberg• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raazh—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Raaz’s background(02:54) Early challenges and Wiz’s essential pivot(06:41) Finding product-market fit(11:31) Lessons from early customer interactions(14:54) The power in speaking up when you don’t understand something(17:46) How Wiz pivoted from their initial idea(23:52) Marketing and leadership insights(34:12) The challenges of being a marketing leader(28:05) Following the “heat” in your organization(30:22) How Raaz found success as CMO(34:01) Common CMO mistakes(36:23) Creating noise and standing out(40:28) Embracing failure and taking risks(44:53) The importance of clear communication(48:32) The “dummy” explanation(51:00) Building trust and company culture(53:45) Contrarian corner(56:34) Lightning round—Referenced:• Wiz: https://www.wiz.io/• An inside look at Deel’s unprecedented growth | Meltem Kuran Berkowitz (Head of Growth): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/an-inside-look-at-deels-unprecedented• Velocity over everything: How Ramp became the fastest-growing SaaS startup of all time | Geoff Charles (VP of Product): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/velocity-over-everything-how-ramp• Assaf Rappaport on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/assafrappaport/• How LinkedIn became interesting: The inside story | Tomer Cohen (CPO at LinkedIn): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-linkedin-became-interesting-tomer-cohen• Shardul Shah on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shardul-shah-3589062/• Doug Leone on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/douglas-leone-a2714/• Jeff Horing on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffhoring2009/• RSA Conference: https://www.rsaconference.com/• Microsoft acquires Adallom to advance identity and security in the cloud: https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2015/09/08/microsoft-acquires-adallom-to-advance-identity-and-security-in-the-cloud/• Imposter syndrome: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/imposter-syndrome• Careers at Wiz: https://www.wiz.io/careers• Setting the Table: The Transforming Power of Hospitality in Business: https://www.amazon.com/Setting-Table-Transforming-Hospitality-Business/dp/0060742763• No Rules Rules: Netflix and the Culture of Reinvention: https://www.amazon.com/No-Rules-Netflix-Culture-Reinvention/dp/1984877860/• Gong: https://www.gong.io/• The Wire on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-wire• Raaz’s pen holder recommendation: https://www.paper-republic.com/products/le-loop-penholder—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
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1:05:19
Becoming an AI PM | Aman Khan (Arize AI, ex-Spotify, Apple, Cruise)
Aman Khan is Director of Product at Arize AI, an observability company for AI engineers at companies like Uber, Instacart, and Discord. Previously he was an AI Product Manager at Spotify on the ML Platform team, enabling hundreds of engineers to build and ship products across the company. He has also led and worked on products at Cruise, Zipline, and Apple. In our conversation, we discuss:• What is an “AI product manager”?• How to break into AI PM• What separates top 5% AI PMs• How to thrive as an individual-contributor PM• Common pitfalls to avoid when building AI products• The importance of energy and curiosity in product roles• Much more—Brought to you by:• Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security• Paragon—Ship every SaaS integration your customers want—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/becoming-an-ai-pm-aman-khan—Where to find Aman Khan:• X: https://x.com/_amankhan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amanberkeley/• Website: https://amanalikhan.com/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Aman’s background(06:16) Understanding AI product management roles(13:29) Getting started as an AI product manager(18:14) Building a portfolio and standing out(22:31) Why product management is not dead(28:56) How to thrive as an AI product manager(35:42) Finding good ideas that are AI-oriented(39:27) Be careful not to automate away every customer experience(42:53) What separates top 5% AI PMs(46:55) Key habits for long-term IC success(52:48) The importance of energy in meetings(57:00) Wandering vs. waiting(01:01:41) Amplifying signal through AI tools(01:03:18) Just have fun(01:05:36) Lightning round—Referenced:• AI Resources and Tools for PMs (Updated Oct 2024): https://open.substack.com/pub/amankhan1/p/ai-resources-and-tools-for-pms-updated• Unlocking the AI PM Dream: Your Roadmap to Success: https://amankhan1.substack.com/p/unlocking-the-ai-pm-dream-your-roadmap• Arize: https://arize.com/• Ryzen: https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors/business-systems/ryzen-ai.html• NotebookLM: https://notebooklm.google/• Figma: https://www.figma.com/• Cursor: https://www.cursor.com/• Replit: https://replit.com/• Excalidraw: https://excalidraw.com/• Vercel: https://vercel.com/• v0: https://v0.dev/• How Airbnb Proved That Storytelling Is the Most Important Skill in Design: https://www.inc.com/yazin-akkawi/the-surprising-technique-airbnb-uses-to-better-sell-an-experience.html• Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach• Midjourney: https://www.midjourney.com/• Dall-E: https://openai.com/index/dall-e-3/• Introducing the Realtime API: https://openai.com/index/introducing-the-realtime-api/• Intro to Large Language Models | Andrej Karpathy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjkBMFhNj_g• Watch Me Build an App in 60 Minutes With o1 and Cursor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Zmhe6_T-xU• Greg Isenberg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gisenberg/• Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/vision-conviction-hype-mihika-kapoor• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/• Instacart: https://www.instacart.com/• How to grow a subscription business | Yuriy Timen (Grammarly, Canva, Airtable): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/transform-your-subscription-growth• When Identifying the Problem Isn’t Enough: Lessons from Boxed Cake Mix by Ann M. Aly, TechFlow Director of Human Centered Design: https://www.techflow.com/when-identifying-the-problem-isnt-enough-lessons-from-boxed-cake-mix/• Waymo: https://waymo.com/• The Ikea effect: https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/ikea-effect• Blue Apron: https://www.blueapron.com/• Unorthodox PM wisdom: Automating user insights, unselling job candidates, logging every decision, more | Kevin Yien (Stripe, Square, Mutiny): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/unorthodox-pm-wisdom-kevin-yien• LeBron James: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeBron_James• The Secrets Behind Lyft’s Dynamic Culture: https://www.forbes.com/sites/marissaperetz/2018/05/16/the-secrets-behind-lyfts-dynamic-culture/• Aparna Dhinakaran on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aparnadhinakaran/• Why most public speaking advice is wrong—and how to finally overcome your speaking anxiety | Tristan de Montebello (CEO & co-founder of Ultraspeaking): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/master-public-speaking-tristan-de-montebello• Ultraspeaking: https://ultraspeaking.com/lenny/• A Short History of Nearly Everything: https://www.amazon.com/Short-History-Nearly-Everything/dp/076790818X• Designing Your Life: How to Build a Well-Lived, Joyful Life: https://www.amazon.com/Designing-Your-Life-Well-Lived-Joyful/dp/1101875321• Tour de France: Unchained on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81153133• Formula 1: Drive to Survive on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/80204890• Websim: https://websim.ai/• Appeel Books: https://appeel.brandeditems.com/• Steve Jobs quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/374630-your-time-is-limited-so-don-t-waste-it-living-someone#• Becoming a conscious leader: Leading without fear, finding your life’s objective function, and getting better at vision and strategy | John Mark Nickels (Uber, Waymo, DoorDash): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/becoming-a-conscious-leader-john-mark-nickels• Aman Khan (cricket player): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aman_Hakim_Khan—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
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1:17:34
Everything you’ve ever wanted to know about SAFe and the product owner role | Melissa Perri (author, founder of Product Institute)
Melissa Perri is the founder of Product Institute, author of Escaping the Build Trap, and host of the Product Thinking Podcast. She has worked with startups, Fortune 50 companies, and everything in between to help them build better products and level up their product teams. In our conversation, we discuss:• The history of the product owner role• The differences between product owners and product managers• How to transition from product owner to product manager• The evolution of and problems with the SAFe framework• How large non-tech companies can improve their product practices• Much more—Brought to you by:• Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application• OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster• Coda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/product-owners-melissa-perri—Where to find Melissa Perri:• X: https://twitter.com/lissijean• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissajeanperri/• Website: https://melissaperri.com/• Product Institute: https://productinstitute.com/• Podcast: https://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Melissa’s background(02:12) The rise of the product owner role(06:37) Understanding Agile and Scrum(08:27) Challenges in Agile transformations(10:41) The history of the product owner role(13:58) The Scrum Guide(15:43) Product owner responsibilities(21:01) Adopting Scrum in organizations(26:21) The origins and implementation of SAFe(35:20) Why Melissa doesn’t recommend SAFe(40:33) Advice for implementing a digital transformation(49:12) An example of SAFe adoption(51:27) The value of experienced product leaders(56:53) Career paths for product owners(01:04:14) Transitioning from product owner to product manager(01:06:41) Be careful relying on certifications(01:11:43) Evaluating existing product owners(01:16:55) Final thoughts on Agile and product management—Referenced:• Escaping the Build Trap: How Effective Product Management Creates Real Value: https://www.amazon.com/Escaping-Build-Trap-Effective-Management/dp/149197379X• Lean UX: https://leanuxnyc.co/• Scrum: https://www.scrum.org/• What is Extreme Programming? https://www.agilealliance.org/glossary/xp/• Capital One: https://www.capitalone.com/• The Agile Manifesto: https://www.atlassian.com/agile/manifesto• Ken Schwaber on X: https://x.com/kschwaber• Jeff Sutherland on X: https://x.com/jeffsutherland• Kanban: https://www.atlassian.com/agile/kanban• What is a kanban board?: https://www.atlassian.com/agile/kanban/boards• Ron Jeffries’s website: https://www.ronjeffries.com/• Jeff Patton on X: https://x.com/jeffpatton• The Scrum Guide: https://www.scrum.org/resources/scrum-guide• OpenSky: https://www.openskycc.com/• SAFe: https://scaledagileframework.com/• Dean Leffingwell on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deanleffingwell/• Capital One scraps 1,100 tech positions: https://www.reuters.com/technology/capital-one-scraps-1100-tech-positions-source-2023-01-19/• Product management theater | Marty Cagan (Silicon Valley Product Group): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/product-management-theater-marty• Marty Cagan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cagan/• Jeff Gothelf on X: https://x.com/jboogie• Shruti Patel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shruti-patel-32bb573a/• Product Thinking Podcast: Mastering Product Focus: Balancing Legacy and Innovation with Shruti Patel: https://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/2024/9/25/episode-190-mastering-product-focus-balancing-legacy-and-innovation-with-shruti-patel• Melissa Douros on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissadouros/• Mind the Product: https://www.mindtheproduct.com/• Athenahealth: https://www.athenahealth.com/• McKinsey: https://www.mckinsey.com/—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
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1:24:19
Breaking the rules of growth: Why Shopify bans KPIs, optimizes for churn, prioritizes intuition, and builds toward a 100-year vision | Archie Abrams (VP Product, Head of Growth at Shopify)
Archie Abrams is the VP of Product and Head of Growth at Shopify, where he leads a 600+ person growth org across product, design, engineering, data, ops, and growth marketing. Shopify powers over 10% of e-commerce in the United States, with $235 billion in GMV in 2023 (roughly the size of Finland’s economy). He previously led Consumer product and growth at Lyft and was at Udemy for 8 years as SVP of Product having joined the company when it was 10 people. In our conversation, we discuss:• Why Shopify optimizes for churn• Why the core product team doesn’t use metrics-based goals• Why they keep multi-year experiment holdouts• How they structure their growth team• The benefits of not having a CMO• Lessons learned about integrating sales into a product-led growth model• The power of discounting as a growth lever• Much more—Brought to you by:• Explo—Embed customer-facing analytics in your product• Dovetail—The customer insights hub for product teams—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/shopifys-growth-archie-abrams—Where to find Archie Abrams:• X: https://x.com/archieabrams• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/archie-abrams-b6aa8b6/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Archie’s background (02:30) Shopify’s impressive growth(06:17) Shopify’s unique approach to churn and retention(08:43) Monetization model and success metrics(11:08) Long-term experimentation and metrics(23:00) Examples of big wins that Archie’s team has shipped(26:42) Monetary friction(27:14) Metrics(29:47) Shopify’s growth team structure(33:03) Goal setting and forecasting(37:10) Examples of long-term results within Shopify(41:36) Shipping neutral experiments(42:05) Building a hundred-year company(48:04) Why Shopify doesn’t use KPIs(51:30) Shopify’s “Get s**t done” framework(54:30) Cross-team collaboration (58:48) The importance of an opinionated founder (01:01:12) Growth and sales integration(01:06:42) Shopify’s marketing structure(01:08:49) Insights on discounting from Udemy(01:11:09) Lightning round—Referenced:• Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/• Tobias Lütke on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tobiaslutke• Gross Merchandise Value: Calculation and Best Practices: https://www.shopify.com/retail/gross-merchandise-value• Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach• Glen Coates on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/glcoates• Harley Finkelstein on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/harleyf• Udemy: https://www.udemy.com/• Scientific Advertising: https://www.amazon.com/Scientific-Advertising-Original-Claude-Hopkins/dp/1640954252• Four-Minute Mile: https://www.amazon.com/Four-Minute-Mile-Roger-Bannister/dp/1493038753/• The Sopranos on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-sopranos• Suno: https://suno.com/—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
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1:17:46
Just evil enough: Subversive marketing strategies for startups | Alistair Croll (author, advisor, entrepreneur)
Alistair Croll is the co-author of the best-selling book Lean Analytics and a longtime product manager, entrepreneur, and startup advisor. He was also instrumental in my starting a company, funding it, and helping us exit to Airbnb as part of his Year One Labs incubator. He’s chaired notable events such as O’Reilly’s Strata and UBM’s Cloud Connect and founded FWD50. In our conversation, we focus on lessons from an upcoming book by Alistair and his co-author, Emily Ross, Just Evil Enough, which is set for release in late 2024. We cover:• The importance of subversive marketing strategies in most startups’ growth• 11 specific subversive tactics that successful companies have used• Examples of companies like Netflix, Airbnb, and Tesla that used clever tactics early on• A framework for scanning your market for opportunities• The importance of finding your “zero-day marketing exploit”• How to apply these tactics ethically without actually being evil• Much more—Brought to you by:• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs• Hex—Helping teams ask and answer data questions by working together• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security—Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/just-evil-enough-alistair-croll—Where to find Alistair Croll:• X: https://x.com/acroll• Threads: https://www.threads.net/@alistairish• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alistaircroll/• Website: https://justevilenough.com/• Substack: https://acroll.substack.com/• Just Evil Enough on X: https://x.com/evilenough• Just Evil Enough on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/just-evil-enough/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Alistair’s background (02:00) The story behind Alistair and Emily’s book Just Evil Enough(06:17) Examples of subversive tactics(07:43) The importance of unfair advantage(10:36) The origin of the title “Just Evil Enough”(14:24) System awareness and novelty(19:16) How to use this thinking successfully (22:37) Normalizing disagreeable thinking (25:49) Recon canvas and market scanning(32:43) 11 tactics for subversive marketing(57:01) Implementing subversive strategies(01:05:01) Ethical considerations in marketing(01:08:19) Lightning round—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
Interviews with world-class product leaders and growth experts to uncover concrete, actionable, and tactical advice to help you build, launch, and grow your own product. www.lennysnewsletter.com
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