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The Dynamist

Podcast The Dynamist
Foundation for American Innovation
The Dynamist, a podcast by the Foundation for American Innovation, brings together the most important thinkers and doers to discuss the future of technology, go...

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  • Copyright vs. AI Part 4: The Road Ahead w/Tim Hwang and Josh Levine
    As revelations about Meta's use of pirated books for AI training send shockwaves through the tech industry, the battle over copyright and AI reaches a critical juncture. In this final episode of The Dynamist's series on AI and copyright, Evan is joined by FAI's Senior Fellow Tim Hwang and  Tech Policy Manager Joshua Levine to discuss how these legal battles could determine whether world-leading AI development happens in Silicon Valley or Shenzhen.The conversation examines the implications of Meta's recently exposed use of Library Genesis - a shadow library of pirated books - to train its LLaMA models, highlighting the desperate measures even tech giants will take to source training data. This scandal crystallizes a core tension: U.S. companies face mounting copyright challenges while Chinese competitors can freely use these same materials without fear of legal repercussions. The discussion delves into potential policy solutions, from expanding fair use doctrine to creating new statutory licensing frameworks, that could help American AI development remain competitive while respecting creator rights.Drawing on historical parallels from past technological disruptions like Napster and Google Books, the guests explore how market-based solutions and policy innovation could help resolve these conflicts. As courts weigh major decisions in cases involving OpenAI, Anthropic, and others in 2024, the episode frames copyright not just as a domestic policy issue, but as a key factor in national technological competitiveness. What's at stake isn't just compensation for creators, but whether IP disputes could cede AI leadership to nations with fewer or no constraints on training data.
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  • Copyright vs. AI Part 3: IP and Cybersecurity w/Jason Zhao, Jamil N. Jaffer, and Tim Hwang
    In the third installment of The Dynamist's series exploring AI and copyright, FAI Senior Fellow Tim Hwang leads a forward-looking discussion about how market dynamics, technological solutions, and geopolitics could reshape today's contentious battles over AI training data. Joined by Jason Zhao, co-founder of Story AI, and Jamil Jaffer, Executive Director of the National Security Institute at George Mason University, the conversation moves beyond current lawsuits to examine practical paths forward.The discussion challenges assumptions about who really stands to gain or lose in the AI copyright debate. Rather than a simple creator-versus-tech narrative, Zhao highlights how some creators and talents have embraced AI while others have shown resistance and skepticism. Through Story's blockchain-based marketplace, he envisions a world where creators can directly monetize their IP for AI training without going through traditional gatekeepers. Jaffer brings a crucial national security perspective, emphasizing how over-regulation of AI training data could threaten American technological leadership - particularly as the EU prepares to implement strict new AI rules that could effectively set global standards.Looking ahead to 2025, both guests express optimism about market-based and technological solutions winning out over heavy-handed regulation. They draw parallels to how innovations like Spotify and YouTube's Content ID ultimately resolved earlier digital disruptions. However, they warn that the US must carefully balance innovation and IP protection to maintain its AI edge, especially as competitors like China take a more permissive approach to training data. The episode frames copyright not just as a domestic policy issue, but as a key factor in national competitiveness and security in the AI era.
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  • Copyright Versus AI Part 2: Hollywood and Creators
    From the SAG-AFTRA picket lines to the New York Times lawsuit against OpenAI, the battle over AI's role in creative industries is heating up. In this second episode of The Dynamist's series on AI and copyright, we dive into the messy reality of how artists, creators, and tech companies are navigating this rapidly evolving landscape.Our guests bring unique perspectives to this complex debate: Mike Masnick, CEO of Techdirt, who's been chronicling the intersection of tech and copyright for decades; Alex Winter, the filmmaker and actor known for Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure, who offers boots-on-the-ground insight from his involvement in recent Hollywood labor negotiations; and Tim Hwang, Senior Fellow at FAI, who explores how current legal battles could shape AI's future.The conversation covers everything from "shakedown" licensing deals between AI companies and media outlets to existential questions about artistic value in an AI age. While the guests acknowledge valid concerns about worker protection and fair compensation, they challenge the notion that restricting AI development through copyright law is either practical or beneficial. Drawing parallels to past technological disruptions like Napster, they explore how industries might adapt rather than resist change while still protecting creators' interests.
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  • Copyright Versus AI Part 1: The Legal Battle w/Pamela Samuelson
    Copyright law and artificial intelligence are on a collision course, with major implications for the future of AI development, research, and innovation. In this first episode of The Dynamist's four-part series exploring AI and copyright, we're joined by Professor Pamela Samuelson of Berkeley Law, a pioneering scholar in intellectual property law and a leading voice on copyright in the digital age. FAI Senior Fellow Tim Hwang guest hosts. The conversation covers the wave of recent lawsuits against AI companies, including The New York Times suit against OpenAI and litigation facing Anthropic, NVIDIA, Microsoft, and others. These cases center on two key issues: the legality of using copyrighted materials as training data and the potential for AI models to reproduce copyrighted content. Professor Samuelson breaks down the complex legal landscape, explaining how different types of media (books, music, software) might fare differently under copyright law due to industry structure and existing precedent.Drawing on historical parallels from photocopying to the Betamax case, Professor Samuelson provides crucial context for understanding today's AI copyright battles. She discusses how courts have historically balanced innovation with copyright protection, and what that might mean for AI's future. With several major decisions expected in the coming months, including potential summary judgments, these cases could reshape the AI landscape - particularly for startups and research institutions that lack the resources of major tech companies.
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  • The Future of Digital War w/Kevin Kennedy
    As we approach the three-year mark of the war in Ukraine, and conflict continues to rage in the Middle East, technology has played a key role in these arenas—from cyber attacks and drones to propaganda efforts over social media. In Ukraine, SpaceX’s Starlink has blurred the lines between commercial and military communications, with the satellite broadband service supporting the Ukrainian army while becoming a target for signal jamming by Russia. What can we learn from these conflicts in Europe and the Middle East? What role will cyber and disinformation operations play in future wars? What has Ukraine taught us about the U.S. defense industrial base and defense technology? As China increases its aggression toward Taiwan and elsewhere in the Indo-Pacific, how will technology play a role in either deterring a conflict or deciding its outcome? Evan is joined by Kevin B. Kennedy,  a recently retired United States Air Force lieutenant general who last served as commander of the Sixteenth Air Force. He previously served as Director for Operations at U.S. Cyber Command.
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The Dynamist, a podcast by the Foundation for American Innovation, brings together the most important thinkers and doers to discuss the future of technology, governance, and innovation. The Dynamist is hosted by Evan Swarztrauber, former Policy Advisor at the Federal Communications Commission. Subscribe now!
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