The Cinematography Podcast

We welcome back Phedon Papamichael, ASC, GSC for the fourth time on The Cinematography Podcast. Cinematographer Phedon Papamichael started preproduction on A Complete Unknown with frequent collaborator, director James Mangold in 2019, before being postponed by the pandemic. They began prepping in summer 2023 and shooting in earnest by the early spring of 2024, which worked well for capturing the changing of the seasons in New York. The long lead time was a huge benefit for both the cast and crew. Phedon and the production team had time to research the time period, create an extensive lookbook of period photos and mull over the script and characters. Actor Timothee Chalamet had time to practice guitar and harmonica and was able to perform most of the songs live. Phedon was very familiar with the music of Bob Dylan, and grew up listening to the artist. He wanted to capture how Dylan evolved and developed as a musician. The set was very intimate, and Chalamet completely absorbed the character of Bob Dylan, frequently watching playback on set, then finding something new with each take. “It was very much this organic process of us capturing and him discovering the character,” says Phedon. “And you could just see it was so enjoyable for every crew member. Everybody was inspired by it.” A Complete Unknown used very few sets and stages, and the production designers transformed two blocks of New York City streets into the 1960's. Phedon shot digitally on the Sony Venice 2 camera, which was then scanned to a film negative and then scanned back to digital. Influenced by the films Klute, The Godfather and The French Connection, he wanted A Complete Unknown to have the Kodachrome look with an earthy color palette. Phedon used lighting that was appropriate for the time period as well, using white and tungsten lights, enhanced with numerous practicals on the set. He embraced the mood of the nightclub scenes, with a single source spotlight hitting the performers on stage and the audience lit with candles on the tables. As the movie progresses into the '60's and Bob Dylan becomes more famous, Phedon began to change the look of the film. “It becomes a little bit more expressionistic, a little more aggressive,” he says. “The stage lights become a little bit bigger, the highlights are a bit hotter, the contrast and shadows are more extreme.” Phedon's ultimate goal as a cinematographer is to stay subtle. “I never want anybody to perceive or feel that I'm lighting something,” he says. “I never want it to feel like there's a craftsman behind it. I always like the photography to just allow us to focus on the character, and really not distract from it.” Find Phedon Papamichael: Instagram @papa2 Hear our previous interviews with Phedon Papamichael on The Trial of the Chicago 7, Ford v. Ferrari, and our live podcast interview. You can see A Complete Unknown currently in theaters. Sponsored by Hot Rod Cameras: https://hotrodcameras.com/ Sponsored by Venus Optics, Laowa lenses: https://www.venuslens.net/ The Cinematography Podcast website: www.camnoir.com YouTube: @TheCinematographyPodcast Facebook: @cinepod Instagram: @thecinepod Blue Sky: @thecinepod.bsky.social

Cinematographer Lawrence Sher, ASC has a career that spans indie favorites like Garden State to blockbuster hits like the Hangover movies and Joker. But it was the arduous process of creating lookbooks for Garden State that sparked an idea: a comprehensive, searchable database of cinematic images. This idea evolved into ShotDeck, a powerful tool for filmmakers and creatives alike. Larry's initial struggle involved manually grabbing screenshots from DVDs and tapes. Google Images offered some help, but the images lacked the cinematic quality he sought. By 2015, he began working with a computer engineer to build a solution, realizing that if he found such a library valuable, his colleagues would too. After years of beta testing, ShotDeck officially launched as a company in 2020. ShotDeck can also be used beyond pre-production pitch decks. “In my day to day, what I realized was every director I communicated with, across all the other departments, we were constantly in need of communicating creative ideas,” Larry says. “It's difficult to communicate creative ideas with words. Having images that you can point to with a director is the easiest way.” Larry would like ShotDeck to become the "visual IMDb," housing an exhaustive collection of cinematic imagery. Recently, ShotDeck partnered with Canva, integrating its library directly into the design platform. This allows Canva users to seamlessly access and incorporate over 1.5 million high-definition film stills into their projects, streamlining workflows for filmmakers, designers, and content creators. For Joker: Folie à Deux, Larry and director Todd Phillips continued their 15 year collaboration. Certain scenes of the movie were partly influenced by The Sonny and Cher Comedy Hour. Larry had to rely on using screen grabs from the show's DVDs as visual references, since they weren't inputted into ShotDeck yet. Joker: Folie à Deux maintains a visual connection to the first Joker, but expands on the original by embracing more fantastical elements. They scaled up the stages and sets, which provided greater flexibility in lighting and camera movement. Larry was able to use more color and a wider range of lighting techniques during the musical sequences, as Arthur Fleck becomes more and more detached from reality. He sees Joker: Folie à Deux as an operatic tragedy, exploring the internal conflict of a person battling their shadow self and delving into the complexities of love and its potential to drive someone to the edge. Larry defends director Todd Phillips's creative vision for the sequel. “When you make a sequel, you have to have a new approach to the material, otherwise why do a sequel to anything?” he points out. “This idea that Todd just took $200 million and just lit it on fire is absurd. The greatest thing about Todd as a filmmaker is he's at heart a gambler. He's a gambler in the way that the movie business should be a gamble. What are we doing this for if not to continue to express something that isn't simply trying to service the audience? We're giving something that you might not have asked for.” He continues, “The movie we made and the way we approached it, it's exactly what we were trying to do.” Find Lawrence Sher: Instagram @lawrencesherdp Hear our previous interview with Lawrence Sher on Joker: https://www.camnoir.com/ep56/ You can see Joker: Folie a Deux currently streaming on Max. Shotdeck is now available on Canva. Sponsored by Hot Rod Cameras: https://hotrodcameras.com/ Sponsored by ARRI: https://www.arri.com/en The Cinematography Podcast website: www.camnoir.com YouTube: @TheCinematographyPodcast Facebook: @cinepod Instagram: @thecinepod Blue Sky: @thecinepod.bsky.social

Anora is the story of Brooklyn, New York exotic dancer, Anora, who meets Ivan, the son of a Russian oligarch at the strip club. They impulsively marry, and once the news reaches Ivan's parents, their henchmen kidnap Ani in order to force her and Ivan to get the marriage annulled. Anora won the 2024 Palme d'Or at Cannes, and is a potential 2025 Oscar nominee. Cinematographer Drew Daniels first started working with director Sean Baker on the film Red Rocket. Drew was a fan of Baker's for years- he liked his sensibility and humanity, and his unconventional ethos behind his filmmaking approach. Drew attended the University of Texas film school, where filmmakers Robert Rodriguez and Richard Linklater are alums. He appreciated the UT film program's independent, DIY approach. When Drew had the opportunity to work with Baker on Red Rocket, he said yes before he even read the script. “What's so refreshing about working with Sean is, you're flying by the seat of your pants, but you're also the leader of this passionate little rag tag army,” says Drew. Drew and Baker began talking about Anora during the editing of Red Rocket. Baker had a very specific idea of what he wanted, so they began testing and research scouts very early, driving to locations and discussing the movie before the script was fully written. Rather than an extensive shotlist, Drew and Baker scouted and blocked out scenes on the shoot locations. The film's striking imagery, from gritty urban landscapes to opulent mansions, was shot on Kodak 35mm film with Lomo anamorphic lenses. “Anora is different than a lot of Sean's films, because Sean's films often deal with people who are on the fringes, or people who are in a lower socioeconomic standing,” says Drew. “It takes on oligarch wealth and opulence, so it needed to be a bigger, more magical format- something that will fully embrace the scope of that mansion.” Choosing to film on 35 elevated the story of an exotic dancer like Ani into something beautiful and elegant, but Drew also wanted to reflect her attitude and scrappiness. He and Baker were influenced by 1970's New York films such as The Taking of Pelham 1 2 3, to find the right amount of gritty imperfection. “Sean is a social realist filmmaker, but he wants his films to have a look and style,” says Drew. “He's very visual, and we constantly talk about the edit, the pacing, the energy, how it's going to cut.” Find Drew Daniels: Instagram @drewalandaniels Anora is currently in theaters, on VOD, and will be available to stream on Hulu. Sponsored by Hot Rod Cameras: https://hotrodcameras.com/ Sponsored by Aputure: https://aputure.com/ The Cinematography Podcast website: www.camnoir.com Facebook: @cinepod Instagram: @thecinepod Twitter: @ShortEndz

Cinematographer Alice Brooks, ASC was in post on In The Heights four years ago when director Jon M. Chu let her know their next project together was adapting the world-famous Broadway musical, Wicked. With such a huge fan base, Alice and Chu wanted to make sure they respected the musical, but they both wanted to find a dynamic, filmic way to approach the material. “John kept instilling in us, don't make the obvious choices,” Alice says. “We were all creating a world of Oz together that no one had ever seen before, that was magical and wondrous and a little bit different.” Alice chose to go back to the source material for inspiration- the Oz books by L. Frank Baum. “Every single paragraph has an incredibly rich color description. Beautiful, poetic, just the world of Oz in color. It's unbelievable. And color means something, color is symbolism in Oz. No color is arbitrary.” Alice embraced all the colors of the rainbow for Wicked. They chose the color palette of pink and green for Glinda (Ariana Grande) and Elphaba (Cynthia Erivo), with pink hued lighting to represent hope and connection between the two characters. In Wicked, good and evil are not as clearly defined as in typical fairy tales, since it's the origin story of how Elphaba becomes the wicked witch. Alice knew she could play with light and contrast between the two characters. Sunrise lighting would represent Glinda, while sunset and darkness represented Elphaba. Alice made notes in the script for time of day as references for each character. She worked closely with gaffer David Smith to create complex lighting cues throughout the film to match sunrise for Glinda and sunset and darkness for Elphaba. Early on, the production team discussed how to create the magical world of Oz without relying on bluescreens or virtual production. In London, they built real, massive, practical sets just like in old Hollywood movies. Alice remembers that Wicked used 17 sets that were 85 feet by 145 feet, with four huge backlots: Munchkinland, Shiz University, the train station, and Emerald City. Each was the size of four American football fields. “We had real tangible spaces to light and to create in,” she says. “And we didn't live in a blue screen world that so many movies do these days.” To create just the right green skin tone for actress Cynthia Erivo, Alice and makeup designer Frances Hannon did several makeup and lighting tests on different shades of green. It took a lot of trial and error to find the right shade of green- many hues simply looked like paint, or appeared grayish under the lights. As the DP, Alice also had to choose what lenses Wicked would use to capture both the scope and intimacy of the story. She worked with Dan Sasaski, Panavision’s senior vice president of optical engineering and lens strategy, to create the Ultra Panatar II series of lenses for the film. For closeups, Alice chose a 65 mm lens for Cynthia Erivo and a 75mm lens for Ariana Grande because she found that a slightly different focal length for each actress worked best, due to the different shapes of their faces. Find Alice Brooks: Instagram @_alicebrooks_ Hear our previous interview with Alice Brooks on In the Heights. https://www.camnoir.com/ep130/ Wicked is currently in theaters. Sponsored by Hot Rod Cameras: https://hotrodcameras.com/ The Cinematography Podcast website: www.camnoir.com Facebook: @cinepod Instagram: @thecinepod Twitter: @ShortEndz