The Bulletin is a podcast for Christians seeking insights into the events, questions, and people that are shaping their world. Subscribe to The Bulletin and join Mike Cosper and Russell Moore every Friday morning as they consider the intersection of faith, culture and spiritual formation. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

More than two years since producer Mike Cosper began recording interviews for the show, The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill returns with its most poignant episode yet -- a road trip to Seattle to stand in the spaces where Mars Hill Church began.  This epilogue of the critically-acclaimed podcast sends Cosper and executive producer Erik Petrik on a trip down memory lane, visiting the buildings and church members who formed the vibrant community that would one day fall apart. From Seattle living rooms crammed with chairs to an empty sanctuary slated for demolition, discover afresh the mystery of God working in broken places. And, as you see how “time humbles and reveals all,” let the story of Mars Hill compel you toward truth not trends, grace not grandeur. Come, meet the people and places that have remained, marked indelibly with love for the gospel and for Seattle. Meet those who never left. As this series concludes, a special thanks to: Joy Beth Smith, Andrea Palpant Dilley, Morgan Lee, Russell Moore, Ted Olsen, Daniel Silliman and Kate Shellnutt. Thank you, especially to Tim Dalrymple and Erik Petrik, Kate Siefker and to Sarah and the Cosper girls. Thank you to the members of Mars Hill Church, especially, Wendy Alsup, Jesse Bryan, Sutton Turner, Tim Smith, Aaron Gray, Jen Smidt and Ben Vandermeer. “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Editor, Host, and Mix Engineer: Mike Cosper Associate Producers: Azurae Phelps and Joy Beth Smith Director of Operations: Matt Stevens Music and Sound Design: Kate Siefker Graphic Design: Bryan Todd Social Media: Kate Lucky Editorial Consultant: Andrea Palpant Dilley Editor in Chief: Russell Moore Closing Song: "Satisfied in You" by Brian Eichelberger Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When author and therapist Dan Allender met Mark Driscoll in 1998, he hoped the two might share building space for their respective ministries. While conversations remained cordial, it didn't take long for Allender to realize he and Mark aimed to build entirely different institutions -- Allender, a school for healing and trauma care, and Mark, a faith community with the aspirations of Babel. Narcissism would keep the two from building on a common foundation. Thirty years later, Allender joins host Mike Cosper for an honest conversation about where that narcissism led and how Mars Hill Church and the city of Seattle suffered under its dogmatism. With incisive yet gentle wisdom, Allender opens the aperture beyond Mars Hill to discuss how trauma creates wounds on which narcissism thrives, how the numbness of anger can lead to isolation, and how the very real joy of spiritual connection can leave hurting people confused and ashamed after the structures they've trusted crumble. If you've experienced spiritual abuse or you desire deeper honesty and humility in ministry, this bonus episode offers a foundational conversation about how to face trauma, how to identify unhealthy leadership patterns, and how to resist the siren call of sin that lures Christians to greatness without cost. For more information about Dan Allender’s work, visit theallendercenter.org “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Host, and Mix Engineer: Mike Cosper Editor: Mark Owens Associate Producers: Joy Beth Smith and Azurae Phelps Music and Sound Design: Kate Siefker Graphic Design: Bryan Todd Social Media: Kate Lucky Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill tells the stories of myriad hurts committed in the name of Christ and his church. Real pain inflicted on real people has consequences; and, for many in the Mars Hill community, the ripple effects have been long lasting. Individuals' spiritual trauma has born out in subsequent church relationships and even personal spiritual practices like Bible study and prayer. In a culture enamored with therapeutic lingo, it can be hard to determine what true trauma is. Spend any time on social media, and you'll find claims of trauma and invocations against toxic people, especially those associated with the church. Exhorted by Scripture to be "wise as serpents and harmless as doves," how can we discern this kind of abuse when we experience it? How can we create organizations that are hospitable to the hurting? And, what can we do to recover? In this bonus episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, host Mike Cosper sits down with therapist Aundi Kolber to investigate the roots of spiritual trauma and chart a path forward after pain. Committed to an integrated view of humans as divine image bearers, Kolber explains the necessity of embodiment in our spiritual lives and offers practical tips for starting the process of repair after trauma. You can learn more about Aundi and her work at www.aundikolber.com “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Editor, Host, and Mix Engineer: Mike Cosper Associate Producers: Joy Beth Smith and Azurae Phelps Music and Sound Design: Kate Siefker Graphic Design: Rick Szuecs Social Media: Kate Lucky Editorial Consultant: Andrea Palpant Dilley Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bonus Episode: A Conversation With Tim Keller Mike Cosper sits down with Tim Keller for reflections on leadership, the troubles with networks, and the essential need for communion with God. Tim Keller moved to New York City in 1989 to plant Redeemer Presbyterian Church. In the three decades since, he’s become one of the most influential voices in American evangelicalism. Several of his books have become bestsellers. City to City, the church planting network he co-founded, has planted more than 800 churches. He also co-founded The Gospel Coalition (TGC), an alliance of pastors and theologians with a shared theological vision. Today, TGC hosts events around the world, draws thousands to its national conferences, and publishes resources online that serve millions of readers, viewers, and listeners. In this conversation, Keller reflects on the challenges of movements, denominations, and networks, as well as his connections with Mark Driscoll, both at the Spanish River Church Network and in The Gospel Coalition. He talks about the limits of institutions, as well as the limits of accountability, and how the only reliable way to guard your heart in ministry is a wholehearted commitment to the pursuit of God in prayer. This conversation was recorded in early May, 2022. “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Erik Petrik Producer, Writer, Host, and Mix Engineer: Mike Cosper Editor: TJ Hester Associate Producers: Joy Beth Smith and Azurae Phelps Music and Sound Design: Kate Siefker Graphic Design: Bryan Todd Social Media: Kate Lucky Editor in Chief: Timothy Dalrymple Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices