The Storytelling Lab

"A good day is when the flow starts to happen and you kind of lose yourself in it. But you cannot count on those days. So I'm a real believer in grinding — just get in there and take what the defense will give you." — Steven Pressfield

ORDER THE ARCADIAN HERE: https://amzn.to/4nYHV5e

Steven Pressfield is your favorite writer's favorite writer.

But years before his best-selling hits like Gates of Fire and The War of Art, Steven Pressfield didn't sell his first novel until he was 52. After over two decades of trying!

In Part 2 of our conversation, he and Rain dig into what kept him going, and what keeps him going still.

From his daily gym ritual to his philosophy on the Muse, from building a catalog instead of betting everything on one book to his relationship with mentor Robert McKee, this episode is a masterclass in the long game of creative work.

If you're in the weeds, struggling to finish, or wondering whether it's too late, this is the conversation you need to hear.

In this episode, you will learn to:
Build a daily creative habit that beats Resistance even when inspiration doesn't show up
Think in catalogs, not single projects, to take pressure off any one piece of work
Use physical movement and morning routines as momentum for the creative work that follows
Trust the Muse over the market — your least commercial idea may be your most resonant one
Embrace the long game and stop measuring yourself against overnight success stories

Special Thanks to our Presenting Sponsor for this episode, Vocatales → https://www.vocatales.com

Links & Resources
Follow Steven Pressfield:
Website → https://www.stevenpressfield.com
Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/steven_pressfield/

Book → The Arcadian by Steven Pressfield (out May 2025) https://amzn.to/4dA7yFJ
Book → A Man at Arms by Steven Pressfield https://amzn.to/4uvYojv
Book → Gates of Fire by Steven Pressfield https://amzn.to/4nVT5aT
Book → The Legend of Bagger Vance by Steven Pressfield https://amzn.to/4tXWiYM
Book → The War of Art by Steven Pressfield https://amzn.to/43wWTWn

Person Referenced → Robert McKee
Person Referenced → Randy Wallace (screenwriter, Braveheart)
Person Referenced → Rick Rubin
Person Referenced → Jack Carr (thriller writer)
Nove/Film Referenced → Project Hail Mary (Andy Weir)

For more storytelling tips and strategies, visit:
Website → https://rainbennett.com
Podcast → https://thestorytellinglabpodcast.com

Or follow along at:
TikTok → https://www.tiktok.com/@chiefstorytellingofficer
Twitter/X → https://twitter.com/rainbennett
Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/rainbennett
Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/thestorytellinglab
YouTube → https://www.youtube.com/@RainBennett

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

"Sometimes you write a character that asserts himself—something you didn't plan. It's like he wanted to come back, and he brought his own story with him. It was kind of my job as a writer to ask myself what that story was." — Steven Pressfield

ORDER THE ARCADIAN HERE: https://amzn.to/4nYHV5e

Steven Pressfield is your favorite writer's favorite writer.

And in this episode, Rain sits down with him in person in Los Angeles to talk about the craft behind The Arcadian, the new novel in his Telamon series.

What starts as a conversation about a centuries-spanning warrior with a karmic curse quickly becomes a writing advice masterclass in how great fiction actually gets made: through instinct, detail, observation, and a willingness to follow a character wherever he leads.

Steven breaks down how he discovered Telamon's immortality only after writing him across multiple books, why physical and historical details are what make the impossible believable, and how a 2500-year-old quote from an ancient Greek philosopher became the seed of an entire novel.

If you write anything—novels, screenplays, brand stories, or scripts—this conversation will change how you think about finding and following a story.

In this episode, you will learn to:
- Trust instinct over planning in your writing and follow your characters even when you don't understand where they're going
- Use specific physical details to earn the reader's trust before asking them to believe the extraordinary
- Find story seeds in quotes, lyrics, and observations, and let them percolate until the full shape emerges
- Get the story first and research second to avoid using research as a form of Resistance
- Move the camera inside your prose, shifting perspective the way a cinematographer would, to write vivid, immersive scenes

Special Thanks to our Presenting Sponsor for this episode, Vocatales → https://www.vocatales.com

Links & Resources
Follow Steven Pressfield:
Website → https://www.stevenpressfield.com
Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/steven_pressfield/

Book → The Arcadian by Steven Pressfield (out May 2025) https://amzn.to/4dA7yFJ
Book → A Man at Arms by Steven Pressfield https://amzn.to/4uvYojv
Book → Gates of Fire by Steven Pressfield https://amzn.to/4nVT5aT
Book → The Legend of Bagger Vance by Steven Pressfield https://amzn.to/4tXWiYM
Book → The War of Art by Steven Pressfield https://amzn.to/43wWTWn

Film Referenced → Past Lives directed by Celine Song

For more storytelling tips and strategies, visit:
Website → https://rainbennett.com
Podcast → https://thestorytellinglabpodcast.com

Or follow along at:
TikTok → https://www.tiktok.com/@chiefstorytellingofficer
Twitter/X → https://twitter.com/rainbennett
Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/rainbennett
Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/thestorytellinglab
YouTube → https://www.youtube.com/@RainBennett
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

"AI was going to get better at technical skills like coding and data analysis much faster than storytelling, because it's much easier to objectively define what is correct code. With storytelling, it's much more ephemeral. AI researchers have called it absurd, trying to quantify what good storytelling is." — Joe Lazer

When ChatGPT launched, the headlines were brutal. Storytellers were cooked, creative work was done, they all said.

Joe Lazer did what any good journalist would do: he started asking questions. What he found, after two years of salons, research, and interviews with AI developers and future-of-work researchers, was the exact opposite.

In this episode, Joe breaks down why AI will make storytelling the most important skill in the new economy.

Joe is the co-founder of Contently, author of the new book Super Skill, and one of the sharpest thinkers on the intersection of AI and human-centered storytelling.

We get into the neuroscience of why storytelling makes us better at leadership, persuasion, and collaboration; why heavy AI reliance causes a measurable 17% drop in skill mastery; and how to avoid the "vortex of mid" that's pulling most brands toward mediocrity. We also get real about how both of us actually use AI day-to-day, and where we draw the line.

In this episode, you will learn to:
Understand why AI raises the value of storytelling rather than replacing it
Recognize how heavy AI reliance causes measurable skill atrophy
Avoid the vortex of mid and stay out of generic AI-flavored content
Apply the Unlock, Unleash, and Upgrade framework from Super Skill
Build audience trust through transparency about your AI use

Links & Resources

Follow Joe Lazer:
Website → https://www.joelazer.com
Book → Super Skill by Joe Lazer → https://amzn.to/4ublf3W
Substack → Subscribe for a signed copy → https://www.joelazer.com/subscribe
Company → Contently → https://www.contently.com

Tool Referenced → Verify My Writing → https://www.verifymywriting.com
Newsletter Referenced → Rachel Karten (Link in Bio) on Substack
Person Referenced → Shane Snow
Conference Referenced → State of the Story by Storytelling360

For more storytelling tips and strategies, visit:
Website → https://rainbennett.com
Podcast → https://thestorytellinglabpodcast.com

Or follow along at:
TikTok → https://www.tiktok.com/@chiefstorytellingofficer
Twitter/X → https://twitter.com/rainbennett
Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/rainbennett
Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/thestorytellinglab
YouTube → https://www.youtube.com/@RainBennett
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

"A living story is immersive, embodied, agentic, responsive, and social. It's stories that we get to be in and experience and live — as opposed to dead stories." —Charlie Melcher

Charlie Melcher has been on the cutting edge of storytelling for decades—from designing books with J.J. Abrams and Al Gore to building an app that Steve Jobs fell in love with to producing a 6,000-person immersive storytelling summit.

In this conversation, he breaks down what he calls living stories: experiences that are immersive, embodied, agentic, responsive, and social, and why he believes they are the antidote to the loneliness and disconnection fueled by passive media.

We cover the neuroscience of multi-sensory learning, the dyslexia origin story that put Charlie on this path, and the moment he walked into his team and said, "We're no longer in the book business." We also get into where AI fits into all of this and why Charlie sees it as the great unlock for immersive storytelling at scale.

This one will make you see every story you've ever consumed differently.

In this episode, you will learn to:
Understand what a living story is and how immersion, agency, and embodiment change the way audiences feel and remember
Recognize why limiting storytelling to two senses is leaving most of your audience's emotional capacity untapped
Use multi-sensory and physical elements to deepen learning, memory, and emotional connection in any story format
See how AI will enable personalized, responsive story worlds at scale and why that demands a moral compass from storytellers
Reframe your own origin story the way Charlie did: not as a limitation but as the thread that explains everything

Follow Charlie Melcher:
Website → https://www.futureofstorytelling.org
Podcast → The Future of Storytelling with Charlie Melcher
Book → The Future of Storytelling by Charlie Melcher https://amzn.to/4w6gFVQ
Company → Melcher Media → https://www.melchermedia.com
Experience → Future of Storytelling Explorers Club → https://www.futureofstorytelling.org

Book Referenced → The Extended Mind by Annie Murphy Paul https://amzn.to/42UcU8A
Book Referenced → Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam https://amzn.to/4whTtUJ
Book Referenced → S. (Ship of Theseus) by J.J. Abrams and Doug Dorst https://amzn.to/4f7PvI0

App Referenced → Our Choice (iOS app, Apple Design Award 2011)

Conference Referenced → State of the Story by Storytelling360

Experience Referenced → Meow Wolf: House of Eternal Return (Santa Fe, NM)
Experience Referenced → Sleep No More by Punch Drunk Theater
Experience Referenced → The Wizard of Oz at The Sphere (Las Vegas)

For more storytelling tips and strategies, visit:
Website → https://rainbennett.com
Podcast → https://thestorytellinglabpodcast.com

Or follow along at:
TikTok → https://www.tiktok.com/@chiefstorytellingofficer
Twitter/X → https://twitter.com/rainbennett
Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/rainbennett
Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/thestorytellinglab
YouTube → https://www.youtube.com/@RainBennett
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

"Your product is not the features, the specs, it's not what you ship. The product is the experience, the transformation that your customer goes through. It's the change in their lives. That's what you're selling." — Rain Bennett

You can have a bold vision, a clear mission, and a brand people believe in... and still fail.

Because none of it matters if your product doesn't deliver.

In this solo episode, Rain breaks down the fourth layer of the Narrative Operating System: Product, the moment where your story is either proven or broken. Using Nike's grassroots origins and screenwriting software Highland Pro as case studies, Rain shows how the best brands don't build products for their customers—they build them with them.

He also introduces the Hub and Spoke Model as a practical framework for keeping every feature and offering tied back to your core brand narrative, and walks through the most common product traps (feature bloat, trend chasing, and data misreading) that cause brands to drift and fracture over time.

In this episode, you will learn to:
Reframe your product as the moment your brand story is proven, or exposed
Use the Hub and Spoke Model to keep every product feature tied to your core narrative
Build with your customers instead of for them by treating listening as a storytelling strategy
Understand where the Chief Storytelling Officer sits in the product conversation and why it matters
Avoid the three biggest product traps: feature bloat, trend chasing, and misreading data without context

Episodes Referenced:
EP 216 → Vision: The Big Future Story (https://www.thestorytellinglabpodcast.com/items/the-real-reason-your-brand-feels-disconnected)
EP 220 → Mission: How You're Going to Get There (https://www.thestorytellinglabpodcast.com/items/%E2%80%9Cvision-is-what-inspires-your-people.-mission-is-what-activates-and-organizes-them.%E2%80%9D)
EP 225 → Brand: How It Feels to Be Part of Your Story World (https://www.thestorytellinglabpodcast.com/items/the-real-brand-difference)

Guest Referenced → Nelson Farris, first Chief Storytelling Officer at Nike
Guest Referenced → John August, screenwriter and founder of Highland Pro

Podcast Referenced → Scriptnotes with John August and Craig Mazin
Software Referenced → Highland Pro → https://www.highland.app

Book → The Chief Storytelling Officer by Rain Bennett → Coming August 25th (https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-chief-storytelling-officer-b-rain-bennett/1149080177?ean=9781636988115)
Substack → Subscribe for more NOS content → https://rainbennett.substack.com

For more storytelling tips and strategies, visit:
Website → https://rainbennett.com
Podcast → https://thestorytellinglabpodcast.com

Or follow along at:
TikTok → https://www.tiktok.com/@chiefstorytellingofficer
Twitter/X → https://twitter.com/rainbennett
Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/rainbennett
Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/thestorytellinglab
YouTube → https://www.youtube.com/@RainBennett

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.