This is Gavin Newsom

Bestselling author Michael Lewis (Moneyball, The Big Short, The Blind Side) joins the show to talk about his new book, Blockers: Rebels in the Deep State, and what he found reporting on the Trump administration's war against federal civil servants.

Lewis often writes about overlooked people inside massive, misunderstood systems, from Wall Street to baseball to government scientists. In his newest work, he explains how Elon Musk's DOGE actually operated inside agencies like the IRS and NIH, why career civil servants became targets, and what happens when the trust in our government finally collapses.

Lewis's new book Blockers: Rebels in the Deep State is out now.
00:00 Opening
00:25 Talking To Bannon, Kirk And Understanding Your Enemies
7:24 Which Of Michael Lewis’s Subjects Was Most Pissed At Him
10:35 How Michael Lewis Decides On His Subjects
18:07 Who Can Tell The Story of Trump’s Second Term
24:42 The Big Question Lewis Asked Himself Before Writing Blockers
30:03 Elon Musk, DOGE & The Origin Of The Term “Blockers”
36:23 What The Hell is The US Institute of Peace?
43:22 Government Is Moneyball All Over The Place
47:45 How Trump Tries To Weaponize Data Against Undocumented Workers
54:33 Better Information Leads To Societal Progress
1:00:06 The Immigrant Who Changed How We Fight Fires vs. The Trump Chaos Machine
1:17:46 Trump vs. The NIH: Who Killed The Scientist Curing Our Diseases?
1:25:09 How People Really Deal With RFK Jr.
1:29:31 The Backdoor That DOGE Used to Fire Millions
1:34: 36 Trump is A Trust Destroying Machine & Where Trump Goes Next
1:38:16 How Permanent Is Trump’s Harm To Government?
1:45:58 How Reagan Ruined America’s Covid Response & Helped Trump Weaponize Grievance
1:51:15 A Sign Of Hope From A Former DOGE Employee
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Governor Newsom begins by sharing how his visit with Bryan Stevenson, civil rights attorney, & founder of the Equal Justice Initiative inspired recent legislation.
Live from the Legacy Museum and the National Memorial for Peace and Justice in Montgomery Alabama, Stevenson joins the podcast to discuss the politics of fear and anger and why America never reckoned with the narrative that justified slavery.

He shares how the Supreme Court might decide Brown v. Board of Education today, what the gutting of the Voting Rights Act means for Black political power, and why DEI efforts fell apart.

They then cover reparations, censorship, mass incarceration and America’s legacy when it comes to the death penalty before finally ending with a message of hope for anyone exhausted by this political moment.
00:00 A Conversation That Inspired A Bill Signing
1:10 The Politics Of Fear And Anger
4:03 Slavery's Real Evil Was the Narrative
6:26 How Narratives Change
8:20 Struggling With American Identity
13:20 Why Build a National Memory & Legacy Museum
17:35 Why The Shelby County Decision Changed Everything
25:28 Why We've Gone Backwards
31:08 How DEI Caused Resentment
37:10 What Reparations Really Means
46:30 Why Am I Responsible For Previous Generations’ Suffering?
51:01 Rewriting History & The Montgomery Bus Boycott
59:23 Could Brown v. Board Be Won Today?
1:04:45 Rev. James Lawson: Do Hard Things
1:12:17 Counter Narratives & Censorship
1:17:54 Mass Incarceration and the Death Penalty
1:35:30 Should California Commute Its Death Row?
1:39:50 What Do You Say to Victims' Families?
1:45:38 Is There Any Reason For Hope?

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Newsmax founder and CEO Chris Ruddy joins the show to discuss how he built a conservative media empire, including the story of how he first met Donald Trump. He then gets into his relationship with the Clintons, California political history, education reform, and conservative talk radio's influence on the country.

00:00 Intro
00:45 The Legacy of California Governors
4:44 Reagan, Republicans & Immigration
7:00 The Crazy Way Ruddy Met Trump
10:30 Liberal Origins Before Building A Conservative Media Empire
18:04 How To Improve Public Education
26:30 Conservative Radio’s Influence On This President
30:18 The Evolution of Ruddy & The Clintons
33:47 Media Consolidation & The Fight Against Brendan Carr & The FCC
45:00 Tech Mergers, Paramount & The Hollywood System
48:35 Newsmax vs. Fox News
51:10 The 2020 Election
54:40 Political Polarization & The 2024 Election
59:22 How Democrats React If They Win Back The House
1:04:57 The Future of Cable & Artificial Intelligence
1:10:02 Should Democrats Appear On Conservative Media

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A few months ago, we sat down with two of the leading voices warning about the risks of runaway AI Tristan Harris & Aza Raskin.
We're re-airing that conversation now because we are at a critical moment in how we deal with AI.
Researchers are quitting. CEOs are begging to be regulated. Yet there's still no comprehensive federal law requiring AI companies to report dangerous incidents when they happen.
So we're taking action.

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We're live on the road in Montgomery, Alabama!
Governor Newsom is joined by Montgomery Mayor Steven Reed for a conversation on the economy, protecting our civil rights, and Alabama’s living history. Plus, BBQ vs. Tacos and how to find hope even as our democracy remains under attack.

00:00 Why Montgomery Matters
4:37 Protecting Our Democracy & Rebuilding Our Economy
13:41 How To Find Courage Amongst The Sellouts
21:23 Montgomery’s Living History As A Lesson For The Country
24:45 Writing A Memoir And The Search for Authenticity
29:35 How To Survive Difficult Moments
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