Beyond Billable Podcast

In this episode of Beyond Billable, Pim Betist talks with Knut Magnar Annestad, founder of the legal AI platform Saga and legal process engineer.Knut Magnar shares his journey from lawyer to entrepreneur and explains why improving legal work often clashes with the billable hour model. He reflects on the moments where doing things better was seen as a threat rather than progress, and why that never stopped him from pushing forward.The conversation then moves to generative AI and legal work. Knut Magnar explains how lawyers can use AI to prepare, structure and challenge their thinking without losing the human judgment that makes legal work valuable. He talks about the risks of using AI as a shortcut, the importance of learning through friction, and why real transformation in law happens in small, deliberate steps.This episode was recorded at Lexpo 2025 and combines personal lessons with practical insights on legal processes, innovation and the role of AI in the legal profession.Disclaimer: we are not affiliated with Saga or with any other legal AI vendor. This conversation is not sponsored, and we do not promote specific AI tools on this podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of Beyond Billable – Driving Conversations, Pim Betist takes Arne van Oosterom for a drive to explore what transformation really means in the age of AI.Arne is the founder of DesignThinkers Group, known for helping global organisations navigate change and reimagine their cultures. Together, they unpack how law firms and legal departments can adapt before disruption forces their hand.They discuss why change always starts with people, how fear blocks innovation, and what leadership must do to make transformation stick. If you’ve ever wondered how to prepare your firm or department for the uncertainty ahead, this conversation is for you.Key insightsSuccess can be dangerous. When everything is going well, urgency disappears. Arne explains how giants like Nokia and Kodak missed the moment to adapt — and why law firms should challenge comfort before disruption does.Change is constant, not an event. Transformation isn’t a project with a finish line. It’s a mindset of continuous adaptation built on trust and honesty.Start small, but start now. Big transformation plans fail because they try to change everything at once. Arne shares why creating safe spaces to experiment builds real momentum.Flip the pyramid. True change demands a new kind of leadership — one that serves rather than commands. Leaders must create the conditions for others to excel.Arne leaves us with one simple principle for the future: Change isn’t something to complete — it’s something to live and breathe all of the time. The firms that thrive will be those that stay curious, stay honest, and build trust into every decision. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

For this Driving Conversation, I take Rutger Lambriex for a spin. After more than twenty-five years with EY Law and HVG, including a decade in New York as managing partner, he recently joined Venturis Consulting Group.We unpack the question every firm should be asking: “How will we earn our money in five years?”Topics we cover:•⁠ ⁠The client–firm win–win matrix: where sustainable value actually sits•⁠ ⁠Moving from hours to outcomes: value-based pricing that aligns incentives•⁠ ⁠Productised contracting built with clients (templates, automation, thresholds)•⁠ ⁠Preventative, business-tuned regulatory and compliance services•⁠ ⁠Operating like a corporate: real roles for tech, finance, and BD•⁠ ⁠The “soft governance” partners must model for adoption to stickIf you’re rethinking your model, pricing, and client relationships in the age of AI, this one’s for you.Beyond Billable – Driving Conversations is a collaboration with NIO Nederland. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Onze host Pim Betist bespreekt met Steven ter Horst van Houthoff hoe het topkantoor vroeg inzette op generatieve AI en dit succesvol wist te verankeren in een first mover advantage. Steven deelt lessen over adoptie, harde cijfers en waarom een multi-tool stack onmisbaar is.We behandelen:Hoe Houthoff een early mover werd met generatieve AIHoe een gedisciplineerde uitrol eruitziet (training, “use it or lose it,” meetbare adoptie)Waarom je op dit moment meerdere tools nodig hebt om legal AI te laten werkenDe moeilijke onderdelen: uitgeverscontent, kennisintegraties, DMS-beperkingenHouthoff 2030: het modelleren van de impact van AI op vaardigheden, pricing en het opleidingsmodelPricing: waar fixed fees logisch zijn en waar het urenmodel nog steeds de voorkeur heeft Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Our host Pim Betist is joined by Steven ter Horst of Houthoff to unpack how a top-tier firm moved early on generative AI and made it stick. Steven shares adoption lessons, hard numbers, and why a multi-tool stack is essential. We cover:How Houthoff became an early mover with generative AIWhat a disciplined rollout looks like (training, “use it or lose it,” measurable adoption)Why you currently need multiple tools to make legal AI workThe hard parts: publisher content, knowledge integrations, DMS constraintsHouthoff 2030: modeling AI’s impact on skills, pricing, and the training ladderPricing: where fixed fees make sense and where billable hours still win Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.