Beyond Billable Podcast

Pim had been curious for a while about the story behind Ari Kaplan the tall, energetic New Yorker known for hosting legal innovation events around the world. So, last year, during Lexpo 2025- The Legal Innovation Event he decided to sit down with him and find out.

t turns out Ari has spent decades tracking the legal sector as a lawyer, writer, researcher, speaker, and host of one of the deepest podcast archives in legal tech. Ari started recording interviews in 2009, before podcasting had even fully found its name. Today, that body of work amounts to a remarkable archive of conversations with leaders across legal, legal tech, and adjacent markets. He's done 60+ research reports and published over 900 podcast episodes.

This gives him the long view of legal innovation. In the episode, we explore:
- Why connecting people is still one of the most valuable skills in legal
- Why consistency is underrated in building trust, visibility, and opportunity
- How generosity and community building create real long term advantage

If you work in legal innovation, business development, or leadership, this conversation will give you plenty to think about.

This episode is sponsored by Lexpo.com get your tickets now.
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Artificial intelligence is forcing law firms to confront a question many have avoided for decades. What happens when the billable hour stops being the carrier of value?

In this episode of Beyond Billable, Pim Betist speaks with Frans Post, a seasoned financial leader in the legal industry with more than thirty years of experience inside major international law firms.

Frans began his career at Clifford Chance when the Amsterdam office was still a five partner startup and helped grow it into a 300 person firm. He later held senior C suite roles in law firms across London, New York and other international markets. He went on to become CFO at De Brauw Blackstone Westbroek and most recently led a major Microsoft Dynamics implementation at Houthoff, focused on creating a technological foundation for data and AI.

Drawing on decades of experience in the financial engine room of law firms, Frans shares his perspective on how AI will reshape the economics of legal services. The conversation explores the future of leverage, the decline of hours times rates, and why pricing will become one of the most strategic capabilities inside law firms.

They also discuss the shift toward value based pricing, margin management, subscription models and the changing role of partners in a technology driven legal market.

This episode is essential listening for law firm leaders, partners and legal professionals who want to understand how AI is transforming the business model of law.

This episode was recorded on De Gewoonboot in Amsterdam Noord.
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More regulation. More work. Higher expectations. And somehow, still the same sized legal teams. Sound familiar?

In this episode of Beyond Billable, I speak with Sarah about why pressure on legal departments keeps compounding and why technology alone will not get them out of it.

She offers a strikingly simple answer to a question many legal professionals are wrestling with right now. Which parts of legal work will be impacted by AI, and which parts truly require the human brain. We unpack how to make that distinction and why it matters in practice.

Instead of starting with tools, Sarah argues for a reset. Decide what kind of legal department you want to be in five or ten years. Separate legal judgment from operational work. Only then does technology, including AI, make sense as an accelerator.

We recorded this conversation on the Gewoonboot. A great place for law firms and legal departments to step back, slow down, and have exactly the kind of conversations we explore in this episode.
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hrist’l Dullaert stelt al decennialang de fundamenten van de juridische beroepsgroep ter discussie, lang voordat AI onderdeel werd van het dagelijkse werk van advocaten en juristen. Zij is jurist, rechtsfilosoof, columnist en auteur van tien boeken, en was een van de eerste stemmen over innovatie in de Nederlandse juridische sector.

In dit gesprek onderzoeken we waarom juristen veranderingen vaak wel begrijpen, maar er toch niet naar handelen, waarom AI commissies te beperkt zijn om echt voorbereid te zijn op wat komt, en waarom vertrouwen en duiding belangrijker worden dan informatie alleen. Christ’l deelt inzichten uit haar loopbaan in de advocatuur, haar in house functies bij de Haven van Amsterdam en Vodafone, haar periode in New York bij onder meer Harvard en de Verenigde Naties, en haar terugkeer naar Nederland waar zij een van de eerste interim bureaus voor juristen en notarissen oprichtte.

We spreken ook over hoe belangrijk je rechter brein is, het risico van het terugschroeven van de instroom van jonge juristen, de rol van cliënten als aanjagers van innovatie, en waarom een projectmatige Hollywood aanpak beter past bij de toekomst van juridisch werk.

Wil je testen of jouw brein meer links of rechts georiënteerd is? In het gesprek komt deze test ter sprake:https://www.123test.com/nl/brein/#its123-testAnchor
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Christ’l Dullaert has been questioning the foundations of the legal profession long before AI became part of everyday legal work. Lawyer, legal philosopher, columnist, and author of ten books, she was one of the earliest voices on innovation in the Dutch legal sector.

In this conversation, we explore why lawyers often understand change intellectually but still fail to act, why AI committees are too narrow to deal with what is coming, and why trust and interpretation are becoming more valuable than information itself. Christ’l reflects on her career in private practice, in house roles at the Port of Amsterdam and Vodafone, her time in New York working with institutions such as Harvard and the United Nations, and her return to the Netherlands where she founded one of the first interim agencies for lawyers and notaries.

We also discuss the importance of the right side of your brain, risks of cutting junior lawyers too early, how clients are becoming the real drivers of innovation, and why a project based Hollywood model may better fit the future of legal work.

Curious whether your brain is more left or right oriented? The test mentioned in the conversation is available in Dutch here:https://www.123test.com/nl/brein/#its123-testAnchor

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