Tax Leaders Unplugged

• Lessons from Building a Tax Control Tower | Ex Senior Indirect Tax Director at Kraft Heinz

  Antonio Erbolato, now Global Indirect Tax Director at Reckitt (note: this role began after the recording of this episode), joins Tax Leaders Unplugged to break down his strategy for building a Tax Control Tower across 27 countries. Drawing from his time as Global Senior Director of Tax at Kraft Heinz, Antonio shares lessons in structuring visibility, governance, and audit readiness at scale. In this episode, he covers:• How he launched a global tax data visibility project starting with indirect taxes.• The phased framework he used to build and scale the Tax Control Tower.• Lessons learned from working with tax authorities in Brazil, the US, and the Netherlands.—Where to find Antonio Erbolato: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erbolato/Where to find Stevi Frooninckx: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevifrooninckx—In this episode, we cover: 00:00 Introduction and Guest Background00:43 Cultural Differences in Work Environments04:50 Tax Perspectives Across Countries11:50 Building a Tax Control Tower15:31 Steps to Implementing a Tax Control Tower16:53 Challenges and Solutions in Data Collection20:12 Phases of the Tax Control Tower31:22 Adapting the Tax Control Tower for Mid-Sized Companies42:00 Final Thoughts and Career Advice

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• VP Tax at Dell on Reputation, Risk, and Real Leadership (Lionel Nobre)

  Lionel Nobre, VP Tax Latin America at Dell Technologies, joins the Tax Leaders Unplugged podcast to explore what in-house tax leadership looks like in practice. After nearly two decades at Dell and deep involvement with TEI and academic programs across the Americas, Lionel brings a clear message: being technically strong is no longer enough. In this episode, he shares:• How he built a 100-hour international tax management program focused on leadership, stakeholder communication, and operational readiness.• Why the tax team at Dell tracks the number of “surprises” as a KPI, and how this drives trust with business stakeholders.• What it means to position tax as a function that enables growth, not just manages compliance.—Where to find Lionel Nobre: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lionelnobre/Where to find Stevi Frooninckx: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevifrooninckx—In this episode, we cover: (0:01) Intro and Lionel’s background in tax and tech(1:02) Early career: Oracle, Arthur Andersen, BDO, Grant Thornton(2:21) 18+ years at Dell and evolution of his role(3:00) TEI involvement and Latin America’s growing voice(4:59) Why TEI matters for in-house tax professionals(8:09) Dell’s approach to tax as a business partner(10:48) Building trust and internal tax reputation(14:55) Launching the International Tax Management Program(18:18) Who the program is for and what it teaches(22:10) Curriculum: leadership, ops, communication, tech(23:10) Tax KPIs and team performance evaluation(24:00) The “surprise” KPI and why it matters(26:28) Why even good surprises are a problem(28:22) ETR impact: linking C-suite access to outcomes(30:54) Teaching change management in tax teams(33:40) Partnering with CIAT to teach cooperative compliance(35:07) Risk dashboards used by tax authorities(38:39) AI, data quality, and audit exposure(42:52) Global expansion of the training program(44:50) Future skillset: 50% tech, 30% business, 20% tax—Referenced:• TEI – Tax Executive Institute: https://www.tei.org/• International Tax Management Program – launched in 2023, hosted by universities in Brazil (Insper) and Argentina (UTDT)• Thomson Reuters Book – “Gestão Tributária no Brasil” co-edited by Lionel Nobre• Texas A&M University – where Lionel lectures on tax leadership• CIAT (Centro Interamericano de Administraciones Tributarias) – partner on cooperative compliance module

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• Transforming Tax Processes: Insights from Jelger Buitelaar, Head of Tax at RHI Magnesita

  In this episode of Tax Leaders Unplugged, we sit down with Jelger Buitelaar, head of tax at RHI Magnesita, to discuss his unique career transition from a tax partner at EY to leading in-house tax roles, the importance of solid processes, the role of data in ensuring compliance, and best practices for legal entity management. Jelger shares his insights on improving tax processes, the importance of direct communication, and how to foster a collaborative environment across various departments for better compliance and efficiency.—Where to find Jelger Buitelaar:• https://www.linkedin.com/in/jelger-buitelaar-0090b31/Where To Find Stevi Frooninckx:• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevifrooninckx—In this episode we cover:00:00 Introduction to Jelger00:43 Jelger Buitelaar's Career Journey01:11 Transition from Advisory to In-House02:04 Challenges of In-House Tax Leadership03:21 Importance of Practical Advice06:29 Joining RHI Magnesita07:57 Improving Tax Processes11:52 Automated Master Data Controls14:01 Ensuring Data Quality20:05 Training and Monitoring for Compliance25:13 Identifying and Collecting Process Issues27:12 Addressing Compliance Challenges in Brazil30:17 Improving Relationships with Tax Authorities34:34 Strategies for Legal Entity Management46:34 Advice for Aspiring Tax Leaders

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• How NN Group’s 14-Person Tax Team Manages €1.3B in Tax Contributions

  Peter Paul Boon, Global Director Group Tax at NN Group, joins Tax Leaders Unplugged podcast to discuss how a 14-person tax team manages tax strategy and compliance for a multinational insurer with 19,000 employees.In this episode, he shares:- Why NN Group prioritizes strategy over technical tax knowledge- How to scale a tax function without increasing headcount- The 80/20 rule of tax leadership—why tax is mostly a business function- How NN Group trained non-tax teams to take accountability for tax risks- Why NN Group publishes a Total Tax Contribution Report—and how it -changed their governance approachKey Insights & Learnings✔ Tax is 80% business understanding, 20% technical knowledge"Most business leaders don’t care about tax memos. They need solutions, not explanations."✔ Train your tax team to speak business, not tax"If you can explain tax to an 8-year-old, you can explain it to your CFO."✔ Decentralize tax responsibility across the company"With 19,000 employees, tax risks can’t sit with 14 people. We train the business to take ownership."✔ Be transparent: Why NN Group publishes its tax contribution report"We started tracking our total tax contribution internally in 2013. Now, it’s a public report and a governance benchmark."✔ The secret to influencing the CFO: Speak in cash impact, not regulations"Your CFO doesn’t want surprises. Show them the numbers and the risks—without the jargon."📍 Full conversation breakdown: [00:00:00] Introduction – Peter Paul Boon’s journey from Dutch tax authorities to in-house tax leadership[00:01:42] Why NN Group’s tax team is deeply involved in social innovation and financial literacy programs[00:04:40] The Tax Elevator Pitch Test – Why explaining tax to an 8-year-old is the best stakeholder training[00:05:28] Why Peter Paul Boon has stayed at NN Group for 25+ years and how he’s kept the job interesting[00:08:54] Encouraging tax team members to rotate into other roles in the business[00:09:54] How long does it take to reach full speed in an in-house tax role?[00:11:36] The 80/20 rule – Why tax leadership is 80% business, 20% technical knowledge[00:13:33] The difference between advisory tax work vs. in-house tax leadership[00:19:00] How NN Group trains 19,000 employees to be tax-aware without overwhelming them[00:20:36] 14 people managing tax for 19,000 employees – How they make it work[00:22:13] Why tax teams should bring solutions, not problems – making tax advice business-friendly[00:25:06] Letting Other People Do the Work (LOPDTW): How NN Group decentralizes tax risk[00:26:31] How to make tax the co-responsibility of the entire organization[00:29:03] How NN Group trains its tax team beyond technical knowledge[00:31:17] The CFO-Tax Relationship – How to communicate risk and value[00:34:21] Why tax teams should stop doing recurring compliance work[00:35:40] How NN Group absorbed Pillar Two compliance without hiring more staff[00:37:01] What Peter Paul Boon looks for when hiring: Eagerness, creativity, and being a team player[00:39:10] Total Tax Contribution Reports – Why NN Group made tax transparency a priority[00:47:00] Why NN Group started tracking total tax contribution internally in 2013[00:51:05] Final advice: Be creative. Challenge everything. Think bigger.

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• How to build a convincing business case as in-house tax | Katharina Herzog (Hugo Boss)

  In this episode of Tax Leaders Unplugged, host Stevi Frooninckx speaks with Katharina Herzog, Senior Vice President of Group Finance & Tax at Hugo Boss. Katharina shares insights into her role overseeing strategy for the finance and tax divisions and leading a team of over 80 professionals. She discusses her vision for closer collaboration between tax and finance, and the importance of senior leadership understanding how these functions drive revenue. In today’s conversation, we talk about the following:  Why Hugo Boss integrates tax and finance teams The long-term costs of outsourcing tax expertise Building a compelling business case that resonates with CFOs and shareholders Key quantitative and qualitative KPIs Tips on "speaking the language" of both the core business and tax functions — Where to find Katharina Herzog:  • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katharina-herzog-b81950ba/ Where To Find Stevi Frooninckx: • LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevifrooninckx⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — In this episode, we cover:  (01:14) Welcome Katharina (01:54) Katharina’s hobbies and interests outside tax (02:54) How Katharina made the switch from finance to tax (03:43) Katharina’s tax strengths and weaknesses and how she filled in her knowledge gaps (06:25) Why Katharina is equally passionate about tax and finance (07:24) The pros and cons of combining tax with finance (09:33) Why tax and finance team members are seated together (10:54) How rotations work at Hugo Boss (11:25) The pros and cons of outsourcing—and what Katharina would never outsource (14:26) An example of technology that aids in compliance (15:05) Building a convincing business case by showcasing the value in tax (19:55) How Katharina shares monthly wins with her CFO (21:55) The challenges in promoting tax and finance  (24:00) Why tax teams tend to be smaller than finance teams (26:53) The value of tax at Hugo Boss (27:28) First steps for building a successful business case (30:01) More in-depth explanations for illustrating the business value of tax (32:32) An ambitious goal at Hugo Boss (35:30) Qualitative business drivers (37:30) Some general ‘dos and don’ts’ of tax (39:14) The core in-house tax responsibilities and how local taxes are managed (44:47) Why you should be multilingual—speaking the language of both core business and tax (45:40) Katharina’s parting advice   — Referenced: • Hugo Boss: https://www.hugoboss.com/us/home • T-Systems: https://www.t-systems.com • KPMG: https://kpmg.com/ • Net promoter score: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_promoter_score• ESG (environmental, social, and governance): https://www.techtarget.com/whatis/definition/environmental-social-and-governance-ESG

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