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Win-Win with Liv Boeree

Liv Boeree
Win-Win with Liv Boeree
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  • #148 - Jim Rutt - Why Capitalism Is Now A Game of Mind Control
    Capitalism has historically been our biggest blessing. But what if it's now turning into our biggest curse? Is it time to change the game?My guest today believes so. Jim Rutt is an early internet pioneer, complexity scientist, former chairman of the Santa Fe Institute, and co-founder of the Game B movement... and he has a lot to say about how our economic and technological systems have trapped us in addictive, self-reinforcing feedback loops. From smartphones engineered like slot machines to markets that manufacture desire rather than meet real needs, he argues that our current “Game A” world runs on a single signal — money-on-money return — and that this monoculture is quietly eroding both our agency, and planetary stability.Which is where “Game B” comes in: a post-capitalist operating system built on multidimensional value, regenerative economies, and what he calls "membranes" — local, self-governing communities that cooperate through trust, technology, and shared sensemaking rather than rivalry and coercion.So if, like me, you increasingly feel that modern life is engineered to keep us divided and distracted, I highly recommend this episode. Liv Chapters:01:42 - intro03:38 - Tech hygiene practices06:57 - what was the motivation for tech sabbaticals?10:12 - why do people love slots?15:02 - When did Jim decide to build responsibly?21:38 - status games23:34 - The market as an information system31:38 - have the status games moved primarily to digital38:42 - definition of game A and game B52:14 - How to prevent system collapse?01:05:52 - Have any practical experiments been conducted on game B?01:18:00 - why game A is self terminating01:27:45 - how do declining populations factor into planetary boundaries?01:39:41 - how do we exit the game when we are within it?01:41:45 - defeating the "Big Man"01:49:18 - Jim's trillion dollar idea02:00:31 - AI consciousness02:14:36 - Consciousness vs Intelligence02:22:48 - the dangers of ascribing consciousness to AI02:26:32 - Rapid fire predictions02:28:53 - Jim's WIN-WINLinks: ♾️ The Jim Rutt Show: https://www.jimruttshow.com ♾️ Jim’s X: https://x.com/jim_rutt?lang=en ♾️ Game B wiki: https://www.gameb.wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page ♾️ Game B Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/gamebcore ♾️ Jim’s essay on smartphone dopamine: https://medium.com/@memetic007/reclaiming-our-cognitive-sovereignty-f49f30eb26bb Credits:♾️ Hosted by Liv Boeree♾️ Produced by Luca de VicoThe Win-Win Podcast:Poker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart the complexities of one of the most fundamental parts of human nature: competition. Liv is joined by top philosophers, gamers, artists, technologists, CEOs, scientists, politicians and more to understand how competition manifests in their world, and how to change seemingly win-lose systems into Win-Wins.Podcast links:♾️ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWgq0OZMtwtOIyMsVM_vksqdfWcM-b68S♾️ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/03bGVUaFZmJUmEvSHNDPdI?si=64379cc23696454f ♾️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/win-win-with-liv-boeree/id1724791350 ♾️ Pocketcast: https://play.pocketcasts.com/podcasts/7f708340-d17c-013b-f46e-0acc26574db2
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  • #47 - Emmett Shear - Why NATURE Holds the Answers To AI Alignment
    Superintelligent AI is rapidly approaching, and humanity (specifically, the labs building it) is still a long way from proving it can be safely controlled. But what if that’s the wrong way of viewing the problem? Is there a way to instill values to the mutual benefit of both humans and machines?In this episode of the Win-Win Podcast, Liv sits down with Emmett Shear — Twitch co-founder, former interim CEO of OpenAI and founder of Softmax — for a groundbreaking conversation on the future of AI alignment.Emmett unpacks why the traditional “control alignment” approach, which tries to hard-code pre-determined values into AI, is destined to fail — and why “organic alignment,” inspired by nature, teamwork, and human societies, might be the only path forward for coexistence. From multicellularity to markets, he explains how collective identities form; why betrayal can sometimes be the moral choice; and how we might go about teaching AI to care for us as its own family, rather than see us as masters to obey (or perhaps more accurately, ants to squash).Hear how Emmett's organisation Softmax is experimenting with small, goal-oriented agents in virtual worlds. Why superintelligence should emerge as societies of diverse AIs instead of a single runaway system. And how our own capacity for alignment as groups of humans may be the most powerful clue for what to do next.If you’re ready to explore the very foundations of your assumptions around technology, philosophy and the nature of intelligence itself, this episode will be right up your alley... Chapters:00:48 - Intro.01:04 - Organic Alignment.709:33 - The Formation Of Emergent Coordination.16:01 - Techniques For Creating Alignment.23:43 - What Is The Ideal Environment To Generate Alignment30:09 - How Much Influence Is Projected On The Ai?32:49 - The Global Super Organism That Is The Market.40:41 - Group Questions.40:50 - The Difference Between Coordination And Alignment.43:02 - What Is The Win Condition For Softmax?50:17 - How Do We Maintain The Need For Humans In The Loop?58:57 - Selecting And Scaling The Right Alignment Model.1:02:09 - Blowtorch Theory & Black Holes1:04:48 - Agents Aligning With Each Other Isn't The Same As Aligning With Humans.1:07:25 - Exploring Ai's Capability For Self Modification And Replication.1:14:35 - The Difference Between Alignment Capacity And Aligning With Humanity.1:18:38 - Does Emmett Believe In God?1:25:23 - Are Humans The Appendix To The Future Super Intelligence?1:32:17 - Is Training Ai On Human Ethics And Morality Actually A Good Idea?1:36:17 - Will Ai Be Conscious Or Self Aware?1:40:48 - One Axiom To Instill Into Ai's Being Created.Links: ♾️Softmax - https://softmax.com/♾️Nebulosity and Meaningness - https://meaningness.com/nebulosity♾️Black Holes and our evolving universe - https://theeggandtherock.com/p/in-which-i-tell-you-about-my-next♾️AI Alignment Forum - https://www.alignmentforum.org/♾️Evolving Intrinsic Motivations for Altruistic Behaviour - https://arxiv.org/pdf/1811.05931Credits:♾️ Hosted by Liv Boeree♾️ Produced by Luca de VicoThe Win-Win Podcast:Poker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart the complexities of one of the most fundamental parts of human nature: competition. Liv is joined by top philosophers, gamers, artists, technologists, CEOs, scientists, politicians and more to understand how competition manifests in their world, and how to change seemingly win-lose systems into Win-Wins.Podcast links:♾️ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWgq0OZMtwtOIyMsVM_vksqdfWcM-b68S♾️ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/03bGVUaFZmJUmEvSHNDPdI?si=64379cc23696454f ♾️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/win-win-with-liv-boeree/id1724791350 ♾️ Pocketcast: https://play.pocketcasts.com/podcasts/7f708340-d17c-013b-f46e-0acc26574db2 #winwinpodcast #organicalignment #aialignment #ai #aisafety
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  • #46 - Isabelle Boemeke - Why Nuclear Power Is The Rad Future We Need
    Energy is the lifeblood of civilization. Is nuclear power the source of abundant clean energy that's been under our noses this whole time?In this episode of the Win-Win Podcast, Liv sits down with Isabelle Boemeke (founder of Isodope & energy expert) to tackle the debate between abundance and degrowth, sustainability, safety & energy infrastructure concerns, AI and emerging technologies, and why biomass “renewables” are a giant planet destroying scam. We also get into some history: story from Atoms for Peace to Three Mile Island and the China Syndrome effect, unpacks how the IAEA keeps power and proliferation apart, and explores the promise of small/modular and micro-reactors. Also, techno-pastoralism. You heard it here first!Chapters: 0:00 - Intro - Why Is Nuclear A Win-Win1:06 - Isabelle's Backstory7:08 - The Cognitive Impact Of Air Conditioning 10:13 - Renewables Vs Nuclear - Is It Really A Battle?13:23 - Wind Energy15:59 - Should America Lean Into Decentralised Energy Grids?18:32 - The Problem With "Renewable" Labelling23:49 - Better Labelling?25:26 - Public Messaging: Simplicity VS Accuracy 29:11 - History Of Nuclear41:38 - Nuclear Accidents e.g. Chernobyl44:52 - What Would Have Happened If We'd Discovered Nuclear Energy Before Bombs?48:25 - Comparison Of Nuclear And AI 52:08 - Lessons Learned From Nuclear for AI Industry56:20 - Iran's Nuclear Program 59:38 - Funding Of IAEA1:07:11 - The AI Race - What About China?1:08:22 - Decentralized Surveillance1:14:29 - Finding Meaning In A “Brave New World”1:16:56 - Why Young People Aren't Getting Into Relationships1:20:06 - Wireheading And Instant Gratification1:33:42 - Techno Pastoralism1:36:30 - Economics Of Nuclear1:45:15 - Government Incentives1:46:36 - Small Modular Reactors1:53:30 - Circular Economies & Thorium1:59:43 - Fast-tracking Nuclear Engineers2:01:12 - Why Writing A Book Is Hellish2:09:36 - Rapid Fire PredictionsLinks: ♾️ Isabelle IG: https://www.instagram.com/isabelleboemeke?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=Y2xkOG9kd3lvdW9h ♾️ Isodope Website: https://isodope.com ♾️ Isabelle X: https://x.com/isabelleboemeke ♾️ i_sodope X: https://x.com/isodope ♾️ Rad Future: https://www.amazon.com/Rad-Future-Untold-Nuclear-Electricity/dp/0593716329Credits:♾️ Hosted by Liv Boeree♾️ Produced by Luca de VicoThe Win-Win Podcast:Poker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart the complexities of one of the most fundamental parts of human nature: competition. Liv is joined by top philosophers, gamers, artists, technologists, CEOs, scientists, politicians and more to understand how competition manifests in their world, and how to change seemingly win-lose systems into Win-Wins.Podcast links:♾️ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWgq0OZMtwtOIyMsVM_vksqdfWcM-b68S♾️ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/03bGVUaFZmJUmEvSHNDPdI?si=64379cc23696454f ♾️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/win-win-with-liv-boeree/id1724791350 ♾️ Pocketcast: https://play.pocketcasts.com/podcasts/7f708340-d17c-013b-f46e-0acc26574db2 #winwinpodcast #nuclearenergy #RadFuture
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  • #45 - Dominic Cummings - Stagnation, Corruption & Rebooting The System
    Dominic Cummings is one of the most polarizing figures in Britain. He's a political strategist who masterminded the main campaign for Brexit. He was also Chief Advisor to Prime Minister Boris Johnson for some of his term, including through COVID. He even had Benedict Cumberbatch play him in a movie! He's also a student of systems, having worked in or around government and civil institutions all his life, which is why I wanted to talk to him, because he's someone who has seen the depth of systemic rot pervading not just the UK, but the whole West. In this wide-ranging, no-holds-barred conversation, Igor and I hear why our governments are collapsing under their own weight, the rise of algorithm-driven politics and civil service monopolies, and the general systemic dysfunctions hollowing out the West's institutions. We also explore whether scientific and technological leadership and a whole lot of radical transparency can save us — or if we’re already past the tipping point.So if you’re craving real talk about power, governance, and what it might take to rebuild from the rubble, you'll enjoy this conversation!Chapters: 01:51 - Is Dominic competitive?07:30 - First Interest in Politics 12:18 - Beginning of his Euroskepticism16:50 - The current state of the British regime23:04 - His Time in No.10 Downing Street 33:00 - Who is actually in charge?36:38 - More COVID screwups40:05 - The Consciousness of the System45:15: Avoiding Future pandemics1:01:27 - Isn't the role of the government to provide stability?1:07:17 - The Issue of Bureaucracy1:11:57 - Machiavelli And Escaping the Wheel1:15:53 - Singapore1:19:34 - Digitizing the Government?1:22:00 - Moloch, Incentives & Political sacrifice1:25:28 - The Media Is A Simulation of Reality1:29:12 - How to design better social media platforms1:31:05 - Sensemaking in the AI age1:37:24 - UK Grooming Gangs Coverup1:48:21 - Political Gaslighting, Freedom of Speech & 2nd Amendment1:50:38 - Blasphemy and Islamophobia Laws in UK1:56:10 - The Sacred Cow of Multiculturalism2:02:22 - Core Principles To Live By2:07:48 - Smart vs Dumb Approaches to Regulation2:17:05 - Rapid fire PredictionsLinks: ♾️ Dominic’s X: https://x.com/Dominic2306 ♾️ Dominic’s Substack: https://dominiccummings.substack.com ♾️ Simulacra and Simulation: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22613.Simulacra_and_Simulation?ref=nav_sb_ss_1_6♾️ Moloch explainer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRz54V7rU4U♾️ Brexit The Movie: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8425058/♾️ Mary Wakefield (Dominic’s wife) response to the movie: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/benedict-cumberbatch-on-playing-my-husband-dominic-cummings/Credits:♾️ Hosted by Liv Boeree♾️ Produced by Luca de Vico♾️ Intro by Perry SinclairThe Win-Win Podcast:Poker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart the complexities of one of the most fundamental parts of human nature: competition. Liv is joined by top philosophers, gamers, artists, technologists, CEOs, scientists, politicians and more to understand how competition manifests in their world, and how to change seemingly win-lose systems into. Win-Wins.Podcast links:♾️ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWgq0OZMtwtOIyMsVM_vksqdfWcM-b68S♾️ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/03bGVUaFZmJUmEvSHNDPdI?si=64379cc23696454f ♾️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/win-win-with-liv-boeree/id1724791350 ♾️ Pocketcast: https://play.pocketcasts.com/podcasts/7f708340-d17c-013b-f46e-0acc26574db2 #winwinpodcast #systemchange #politics
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  • #44 - Dean Spears - Population Decline Is Worse Than You Think
    The world is having fewer babies than ever. But how bad is this, really? What's causing it? Is there a win-win solution out there that can help people have more babies, if they want them?In this special "Win-Win Live" event, I speak to Professor Dean Spears - a demographer and economist whose research examines the impact of population decline. He's the author of the book "After The Spike" which explores why people are choosing to have fewer babies, and the stark realities it would mean if the population continues on its current path. As you'll see, the latter half of this conversation opens up into a group discussion with many previous Win-Win guests who I invited to join because such a complex and sensitive topic requires as many perspectives as possible! What do you think is the solution? Let me know in the comments below.Chapters:0:22 - Introduction to the Fertility Crisis4:12 - Why Over-Population Isn’t A Thing11:17 - What’s Causing It?16:03 - Role of Social Trends18:20 - Role of Biological Infertility & Toxins23:10 - Wouldn’t Fewer People Take Pressure Off The Environment?28:56 - Climate, Ocean and Other Planetary Boundaries32:28 - Paul Erlich and Dangers of Zero-Sum Thinking36:25 - Can’t AI & Robots Fill The Economic Gap?42:58 - Historical Strategies That Increased Birth Rates?48:40 - Impact of Contraception52:57 - Which Sub-Populations Are Bucking The Trend?57:37 - How To Help Women Have Careers And Babies?59:56 - The Issues of A Heavily Elderly Population1:05:13 - Examples of Successful Incentives1:09:07 - More AI Stuff1:17:47 - Opportunity Cost Hypothesis1:22:28 - Won’t People Just Adapt?1:27:55 - COVID-19 And Fertility Rate1:29:17 - Family Size Distributions1:34:31 - Research on Declining IntimacyLinks: ♾️ Dean's Website: https://deanspears.net/♾️ After The Spike Book - https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/After-the-Spike/Dean-Spears/9781668057339♾️ Dean's NYTimes article: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/29/opinion/population-climate-progress.html♾️ Population Projections: https://ourworldindata.org/un-population-2024-revisionCredits:♾️ Hosted by Liv Boeree♾️ Produced by Luca de VicoThe Win-Win Podcast:Poker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart the complexities of one of the most fundamental parts of human nature: competition. Liv is joined by top philosophers, gamers, artists, technologists, CEOs, scientists, athletes and more to understand how competition manifests in their world, and how to change seemingly win-lose games into Win-Wins.Podcast links:♾️ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWgq0OZMtwtOIyMsVM_vksqdfWcM-b68S♾️ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/03bGVUaFZmJUmEvSHNDPdI?si=64379cc23696454f ♾️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/win-win-with-liv-boeree/id1724791350 ♾️ Pocketcast: https://play.pocketcasts.com/podcasts/7f708340-d17c-013b-f46e-0acc26574db2 #winwinpodcast #populationdecline #fertilitycrisis
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Over Win-Win with Liv Boeree

Don't hate the players, change the game! The Win-Win Podcast is an exploration of the games that drive our world. Created by poker champion Liv Boeree, it explores solutions to humanity's biggest issues through the lens of game theory. If you want to hear from some of the greatest thinkers on earth, and help defeat Moloch by turning lose-lose dilemmas into clear win-wins, this is the show for you.
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