The Innovation Show

• Navigating the Age of Chaos Part 2 with Bob Johansen and Jamais Cascio

  Mastering Chaos: Navigating the BANI Future with Bob Johansen & Jamais Cascio   🎙️ Episode Title: Mastering Chaos: Navigating the BANI Future 👥 Guests: Bob Johansen & Jamais Cascio 💡 Sponsored by: Kyndryl | Reimagining the tech systems powering global enterprise innovation. In this episode, Bob Johansen and Jamais Cascio return to explore their book Navigating the Age of Chaos: A Sensemaking Guide to a BANI World.  They dive into the evolution from VUCA (Volatile, Uncertain, Complex, Ambiguous) to BANI (Brittle, Anxious, Nonlinear, Incomprehensible) and its impact on leadership, strategy, and personal resilience. 🔍 Topics Include: The origins and future of VUCA and BANI VUCA+ and BANI+ frameworks Real-world examples: LEGO, Netflix, Special Olympics, Airbnb Leadership agility & "Flexive Command"  Future-back thinking and anticipatory history AI, ethics, empathy & strategic foresight Purpose, interconnectedness & sensemaking This episode is essential for leaders, innovators, and future-thinkers navigating today's complex and chaotic world. 00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message 00:24 Opening Quote and Guest Introduction 00:59 Understanding VUCA and VUCA Plus 04:36 Exploring BANI and BANI Plus 06:37 Future Back Thinking and Historical Patterns 09:33 The Concept of Flexive Command 11:01 Resilience and Bendability in Organizations 25:59 Empathy and Anxiety in Leadership 39:52 Debating AI and Guardrails 40:47 Ethics and Metaphors in AI 41:57 Kate Darling's Perspective on AI 43:31 The Language of AI 43:59 Robotics and Empathy 45:51 Mindfulness and Anxiety 47:18 Nonlinearity in BANI 48:04 Neuro Flexibility and Improv 50:40 Orthogonal Thinking and T-shaped People 53:17 Distant Early Warnings 59:50 Gaming and Nonlinear Thinking 01:09:30 Incomprehensibility and Interconnectedness 01:16:45 Faith and Purpose in a BANI World 01:20:45 Final Thoughts and Conclusion   🔗 Useful links: • Navigating the Age of Chaos – ageofbani.com • Bob Johansen – IFTF.org • Jamais Cascio – openthefuture.com • Kyndryl Institute – kyndryl.com/institute • Aidan McCullen – aidanmccullen.com   #TheInnovationShow #BANI #VUCA #Leadership #FutureThinking #Chaos #Resilience #Innovation #Kyndryl #Thinkers50

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• Navigating the Age of Chaos Part 1 with Jamais Cascio And Bob Johansen

  Episode Summary: In Part 1 of this two-episode series, Aidan McCullen is joined by futurists Bob Johansen and Jamais Cascio, co-authors of Navigating the Age of Chaos: A Sensemaking Guide to a BANI World That Doesn't Make Sense. The trio unpacks the BANI Framework — Brittle, Anxious, Nonlinear, Incomprehensible — and explores how it helps us make sense of a world where traditional models like VUCA no longer apply.   Discover how anxiety, complexity, systemic fragility, and incomprehensible change are reshaping our lives and futures — and what we can do to adapt and thrive in the face of it all.   Key Discussion Points: From VUCA to BANI: Why old models fail System fragility and the myth of stability Psychological burnout in the age of anxiety Non-linear risk and delayed cause-effect dynamics Incomprehensibility and the collapse of trust in truth   Links & Resources: 🌐 Book: Navigating the Age of Chaos – https://ageofbani.com 📘 Bob Johansen – https://www.iftf.org 🧠 Jamais Cascio – https://www.openthefuture.com 🎙️ Sponsored by Kyndryl – https://kyndryl.com 🎓 Host and Irish Keynote Speaker Aidan McCullen and The Innovation Show is the first podcast to be recognised by Thinkers50, the global ranking body for management thinkers. https://aidanmccullen.com For those wondering what the anime mentioned by Jamais is: One Piece, in particular the group in the series called the "Straw Hat Pirates." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Piece_(1999_TV_series) https://www.npr.org/2025/10/05/nx-s1-5560980/gen-z-protesters-one-piece-pirate-flag 00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message 00:21 Reflecting on the Decade: 2015-2025 01:41 Introducing the B.A.N.I. Framework 02:24 Meet the Authors: Bob Johansen and Jamais Cascio 04:29 The Evolution from VUCA to BANI 16:18 Understanding Brittle in BANI 30:14 Exploring Anxious in BANI 37:03 Alan Watts and the Timeless Nature of Anxiety 38:18 Resilience in the Face of Extinction 39:30 The Persistent Relevance of VUCA 39:52 The Unique Challenges of BANI 41:13 Interconnected Crises and Their Compounding Effects 44:30 The Participatory Panopticon and Surveillance 49:28 Non-Linearity and Climate Hysteresis 01:00:23 Stochastic Terrorism and Its Implications 01:02:44 Incomprehensibility in a BANI World 01:10:37 Conclusion and Further Resources Coming Soon: 👉 Part 2: BANI Plus – Flipping the Framework Positive

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• Chuck House The Odyssey of an Intrapreneur Permission Denied

  On this episode of The Innovation Show, we welcome Chuck House, serial intrapreneur, author of Permission Denied, and former executive at Hewlett-Packard. Chuck shares hard-won lessons from inside one of the world's most influential tech companies—revealing what it really takes to innovate from within. From helping pioneer the first commercial computer graphics display to earning HP's only-ever Medal of Defiance, Chuck's story is both a cautionary tale and a masterclass in intrapreneurial resilience. Hosted by Aidan McCullen, Thinkers50 Award recipient for Innovation and keynote speaker based in Ireland. 🎧 Highlights include: Surviving and thriving as an intrapreneur Navigating organisational resistance Why engineers must meet customers Leadership in uncertain times Insights for today's innovation leaders   📖 Get Chuck's book: Permission Denied: Odyssey of an Intrapreneur: https://amzn.to/3Xq2LxC 🌐 More on Aidan: www.aidanmccullen.com

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• The Magic of Code with Sam Arbesman | The Innovation Show (Thinkers50 Award-Winning Podcast)

  In this thought-provoking episode, Aidan McCullen — Thinkers50 Innovation Award Winner, author of Undisruptable, and host of The Innovation Show — welcomes Samuel Arbesman, scientist, author, and polymath, for the grand finale of their trilogy. Together, they explore The Magic of Code: How Digital Language Created and Connects Our World, diving deep into how code shapes our understanding of reality — from biology and evolution to artificial intelligence and the simulation hypothesis.  Discover how code is the new DNA, the universal language linking art, philosophy, and technology, and why rekindling curiosity, humility, and wonder is essential in our age of machines. Timestamps 00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message 00:18 The Power and Mystery of Code 01:33 Guest Introduction: Samuel Arbesman 02:26 The Magic of Code: Themes and Inspirations 03:53 Rekindling Wonder in Computing 11:01 Biology and Computation: A Deep Dive 14:43 Artificial Life and Evolution in Computing 24:17 Emergent Behavior and Evolutionary Contingency 28:28 Simulation Hypothesis: Reality as a Program 29:30 The Complexity of Digital Simulations 30:35 Weather Prediction and Simplified Models 32:00 The Physicality of Computing 33:17 The Simulation Hypothesis 39:05 The Role of Language in AI 44:09 Humanity and Technology 47:39 The Future of Technology and Society 57:00 Final Thoughts on Humility and Curiosity In This Episode The connection between code, language, and human creativity How biology and computation mirror one another Artificial life, evolution, and digital ecosystems The simulation hypothesis: Are we living in code? The importance of humility, restraint, and curiosity in an AI-driven world Guest: Samuel Arbesman — Author of The Magic of Code, The Half-Life of Facts, and Overcomplicated 🔗 Find Sam: https://arbesman.net Host: Aidan McCullen — Thinkers50 Innovation Award Winner, international thought leader on change and reinvention, author of Undisruptable, and host of The Innovation Show, a globally acclaimed and Thinkers50-recognised podcast inspiring leaders to thrive through change. A former international rugby player, Aidan now helps organisations and leaders adapt and evolve in an age of exponential transformation.   Get Sam's Book: https://amzn.to/3Xb8abN Find the Innovation show: https://thethursdaythought.substack.com

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• Understanding the Complexity of Modern Technology with Samuel Arbesman | Overcomplicated

  In this episode, we explore the intricate world of modern technology with Samuel Arbesman, author of Overcomplicated: Technology at the Limits of Comprehension. Why did the New York Stock Exchange shut down in 2015? What caused Toyota vehicles to accelerate without warning? Samuel reveals how technological "accretion" and interconnected systems create outcomes that even developers, engineers, and executives can't predict. We discuss: Why technology often evolves beyond human comprehension How "spaghetti code" and legacy systems create systemic risk The biological limits of human understanding Generalists vs. specialists in innovation The balance between intellectual humility and progress How we can better live with—and design—overcomplicated systems   This is a must-listen for leaders, technologists, and innovators navigating today's complex digital ecosystem. 🎙 Hosted by Aidan McCullen, keynote speaker on change and innovation. 💡 Sponsored by Kyndryl Episode Notes / Timestamps 00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message 00:19 Unsolved Mysteries in Technology 01:18 Guest Introduction: Samuel Arbesman 01:57 Overview of 'Overcomplicated' 03:25 Case Studies: Stock Exchange and Toyota 07:53 The Concept of Accretion 15:48 Complexity vs. Complication 26:49 Interoperability and Trade-offs 29:29 Systemic Failures and Interoperability 29:53 Open Source Software and Maintenance Challenges 32:00 Biological Limits of Human Comprehension 34:51 The Role of Technology in Understanding Complex Systems 40:52 The Burden of Knowledge and the Need for Generalists 50:53 Physics vs. Biological Thinking in Innovation 55:49 Final Thoughts on Humility and Understanding   Find Samuel Arbesman: https://arbesman.net   [Aidan McCullen is a internationally Thinkers50 recognised thought leader on change and innovation. He is the author of Undisruptable and host of the globally acclaimed Innovation Show. A former international rugby player, Aidan now helps leaders and organisations thrive in an age of constant reinvention.]

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