Directionally Correct, A People Analytics Podcast

Thanks to HRBench for powering this episode. To find out more about the company building the future of people intelligence, reach out to book a demo at hrbench.com/directionallycorrect !

Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, Jay Van Bavel, Professor of Psychology & Neural Science at NYU and Author of “The Power of Us”!

In this wide-ranging and deeply thought-provoking conversation, Cole Napper sits down with Jay Van Bavel to unpack one of the most important—and often misunderstood—forces shaping organizations, workplaces, and society today: identity. Drawing from decades of research in psychology, neuroscience, group behavior, and conflict, Jay explains why identity is far more than an academic concept—it shapes how we think, what we value, who we trust, and how organizations succeed or fail.

At the center of the discussion is a powerful idea: we are shaped by the groups we join. Jay explains how identities act like lenses through which we interpret the world, influencing behavior, priorities, and even morality. Whether in workplaces, families, professional communities, or social groups, the identities we adopt quietly shape our decisions and relationships in ways most people underestimate.

Cole and Jay explore one of the defining workplace challenges of the modern era: rising polarization, incivility, and declining trust. Jay shares research on why remote work, shrinking social circles, and fragmented organizational identities may be contributing to lower cooperation and weaker connections at work. The discussion reframes psychological safety—not as avoiding conflict, but as creating environments where people can challenge ideas, disagree productively, and take interpersonal risks without fear.

The episode also dives into inclusion, bias, and organizational performance. Jay explains why diverse teams only outperform when paired with shared identity, inclusive norms, and psychological safety. He offers a nuanced perspective on why some approaches to DEI created backlash, what organizations misunderstood, and how leaders can foster inclusion in ways grounded in science rather than ideology.

Cole and Jay examine the hidden power of dissent, asking why organizations often punish the very people who care most about the group. Jay shares practical strategies for avoiding groupthink, encouraging constructive disagreement, and building cultures where dissent strengthens decision-making rather than undermining cohesion.

The conversation also explores why social skills may matter more than technical skills in the future of work, how Gen Z’s changing relationship with in-person interaction is affecting workplaces, and why relationship-building may become one of the most valuable capabilities in an AI-driven world. Along the way, they discuss conformity, culture fit, social media, moralization, and even the surprising story behind the rivalry that created Adidas and Puma as a lesson in identity and belonging.

If you work in HR, people analytics, organizational psychology, talent management, or simply want to better understand why people behave the way they do inside groups, this conversation offers practical, research-backed insights for building healthier and higher-performing organizations.

If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.

Thanks to HRBench for powering this episode. To find out more about the company building the future of people intelligence, reach out to book a demo at hrbench.com/directionallycorrect !

Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, David Edwards, Chief Workforce Strategist at Dark Artistry, Author of "The Strategic Workforce Planning Handbook"!

In this wide-ranging and deeply practical conversation, Cole Napper sits down with David Edwards to unpack one of the most important—and often misunderstood—disciplines shaping the future of work: strategic workforce planning. Drawing from decades of experience across HR, workforce strategy, and organizational transformation, David explains why workforce planning is far more than forecasting headcount. Instead, it is about ensuring organizations have a workforce fit for future business purpose—and understanding the risks that emerge when they do not.

David reflects on publishing The Strategic Workforce Planning Handbook and the challenge of writing in a field evolving at breakneck speed. He candidly shares how rapidly advancing AI capabilities made parts of the book feel outdated almost immediately, highlighting just how quickly workforce realities are shifting and why practitioners must constantly adapt.

A major theme of the conversation is the relationship between business strategy, workforce demand, and workforce risk. David explains why organizations often misunderstand “strategy,” arguing that workforce planning only becomes meaningful when deeply connected to business objectives. Through practical examples, he demonstrates how hidden vulnerabilities—aging talent populations, concentrated expertise, succession gaps, and critical capability shortages—can quietly threaten organizational performance if left unaddressed.

The discussion also explores the increasingly inseparable relationship between people analytics and workforce planning. David argues that workforce planning cannot exist without evidence, while analytics alone often lacks the context necessary to influence business decisions. Together, the two disciplines help leaders identify which parts of the workforce are truly strategic, where risks exist, and how talent decisions shape long-term business outcomes.

Cole and David spend significant time discussing AI’s accelerating impact on workforce planning itself. Rather than viewing planning as a static annual process, David envisions a future where AI enables more dynamic analysis of workforce risk, capability gaps, and changing work structures. The conversation moves beyond simple headcount questions to larger issues: How will AI reshape work? Which capabilities will become more valuable? And how should organizations prepare for a future changing faster than traditional planning cycles can handle?

Beyond strategy and frameworks, the episode takes a surprisingly personal turn as David reflects on his career journey—from volunteering as a teacher in Kenya at age eighteen to singing in a seventeen-piece soul band and helping redeploy employees at risk of losing their jobs. Those experiences shaped a deeply people-centered philosophy rooted not just in business outcomes, but in helping people navigate transitions and continue meaningful careers.

Cole’s Corner brings provocative debates on management quality, aging workforces, mentorship, knowledge transfer, and what organizations should do with long-tenured employees whose performance no longer matches evolving business needs. The episode closes with a thoughtful reflection on technological disruption, history, and human resilience as Cole and David consider whether today’s AI-driven transformation mirrors other moments of dramatic societal change.

If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.

Thanks to HRBench for powering this episode. To find out more about the company building the future of people intelligence, reach out to book a demo at hrbench.com/directionallycorrect !

Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, Sue Lam, VP of Global People Insights, Culture, Strategy & Planning at The Coca-Cola Company!

In this wide-ranging and highly practical conversation, Cole Napper sits down with Sue Lam, VP of Global People Insights, Culture, Strategy & Planning at The Coca-Cola Company, to explore what it actually takes to turn people analytics into meaningful organizational change. Returning to the podcast after her original episode was lost during a platform migration, Sue reflects on how the field has evolved and why analytics teams must move beyond dashboards and reporting to influence real-world behavior.

Sue shares how her role at Coca-Cola blends people insights, culture, and strategy to help leaders make better decisions through data—but with an important distinction: her team focuses on behavioral change, not just surfacing insights. She walks through a compelling example of Coca-Cola’s culture transformation, where analysis revealed employees were still being rewarded for behaviors tied to an outdated operating model. Rather than stopping at the findings, her team partnered across leadership development, rewards, talent, and local culture teams to redesign manager conversations, interventions, and training to reinforce desired behaviors.

A major theme throughout the episode is human-centered design and why HR must shift from building programs to designing experiences. Instead of asking what training managers need, Sue argues organizations should ask what it feels like to become a manager, where friction exists, and what unseen pressures employees face. By focusing on the employee experience rather than the HR process, organizations can create systems that improve both performance and wellbeing.

Cole and Sue also discuss the overlap between social psychology, industrial-organizational psychology, and behavioral science, exploring why ideas from adjacent disciplines like marketing and design thinking may be essential to HR’s future. Sue reflects on her unconventional path as a social quantitative psychologist and how it unexpectedly prepared her for culture and organizational work.

The conversation expands into larger workplace debates, including whether industrial-organizational psychology is doing enough to influence real business decisions. Together, they discuss why evidence-based research often struggles to shape practice in elite organizations, where hiring decisions may rely more on credentials, networks, and backchannel references than formal science. They also explore how stronger partnerships between researchers and practitioners could accelerate more applied insights.

AI’s growing impact on hiring becomes another key focus. Cole and Sue debate whether resumes and traditional credentials are becoming less meaningful signals of competence in a world where AI can generate polished applications and work samples. While public proof of work and personal brands may surface talent, both question how organizations will distinguish genuine expertise from polished outputs and whether recruiting may ultimately shift back toward trust, relationships, and human networks.

Alongside the serious topics, the episode balances humor and storytelling as Cole and Sue unpack shows like Industry and Silicon Valley, reflecting on what they reveal about workplace incentives, analytics, and organizational behavior. The discussion also touches on workplace jargon, organizational “BS,” high performers, academic publishing, and the future of people intelligence.

Throughout the conversation, Sue brings intellectual rigor, practical wisdom, and humor, offering listeners a thoughtful look at how organizations can create better employee experiences while driving stronger business outcomes.

If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.

Thanks to HRBench for powering this episode. To find out more about the company building the future of people intelligence, reach out to book a demo at hrbench.com/directionallycorrect !

Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, Suzanne Bell, Lead Scientist, NASA’s Behavioral Health & Performance Lab!

In this wide-ranging and deeply fascinating conversation, Cole Napper sits down with Suzanne Bell to explore one of the most unique and high-stakes applications of industrial-organizational psychology in the world: preparing human beings to live, work, and thrive in space. As a lead scientist at NASA, Suzanne shares how her team supports astronaut selection, behavioral health, team dynamics, cognitive readiness, sleep science, and mission performance as humanity prepares for a sustained return to deep space through the Artemis missions and eventually journeys to Mars.

The conversation dives into the enormous psychological and operational challenges associated with long-duration spaceflight. Suzanne explains how life aboard spacecraft like Orion differs dramatically from even the International Space Station, where astronauts already operate under isolation and confinement. Living in an extremely small shared environment with little privacy introduces new complexities around teamwork, adaptability, emotional regulation, and interpersonal dynamics. She discusses how NASA studies these conditions through both real missions and Earth-based analog environments, allowing researchers to better understand what makes teams resilient under prolonged stress.

Cole and Suzanne also unpack the science behind astronaut selection and what constitutes “fit to mission.” Suzanne explains that while technical expertise matters, behavioral competencies such as adaptability, teamwork, emotional stability, and the ability to both lead and follow become increasingly critical as missions grow longer and more isolated. She emphasizes that NASA applies rigorous scientist-practitioner principles, including competency modeling, multimethod assessment, and evidence-based selection systems, to identify individuals capable of succeeding in some of the harshest environments humans have ever encountered.

One of the most compelling sections of the discussion focuses on how humans adapt under stress. Suzanne shares insights from NASA’s growing database of individuals who have lived in isolated and confined environments, highlighting research showing that humans are remarkably adaptable but that transitions themselves often create the greatest challenges. Whether adjusting to microgravity, returning to Earth, or preparing for life on another planet, the process of adaptation places enormous demands on cognition, emotion, and physical functioning. She also reveals emerging findings showing that declines in positive affect during long-duration isolation can reduce task speed even when accuracy remains high, reinforcing the importance of emotional well-being for mission success.

The conversation also explores Bayesian statistics, small-sample research, and how NASA approaches evidence generation in situations where only a handful of astronauts may ever participate in a mission. Suzanne explains how her lab transformed its data infrastructure to aggregate findings across missions and simulations, enabling faster learning cycles and more effective decision-making for future Artemis missions. The discussion becomes a masterclass in applied research design, demonstrating how rigorous analytics can still thrive in environments with limited data but extraordinarily high consequences.

Cole and Suzanne also spend significant time discussing AI, ethics, and the future of scientist-practitioner work. Suzanne shares how NASA is thinking about AI-assisted monitoring and Earth-independent operations for future Mars missions where communication delays make real-time support from Earth impossible. Together they explore the ethical responsibilities researchers have to engage with emerging technologies proactively, ensuring science helps shape responsible adoption rather than reacting after the fact.

Beyond the science, the episode offers a deeply human look into Suzanne herself, including her routines, leadership philosophy, curiosity about the world, and perspective on balancing an incredibly demanding career with family life. The result is an inspiring conversation about psychology, leadership, teamwork, innovation, resilience, and the future of human exploration.

If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.

Thanks to HRBench for powering this episode. To find out more about the company building the future of people intelligence, reach out to book a demo at hrbench.com/directionallycorrect !

Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, Allan Church, Co-Founder and Managing Partner at Maestro Consulting!

In this wide-ranging and deeply insightful conversation, Cole Napper sits down with Allan Church to unpack one of the most debated and often misunderstood topics in the field of talent management: the distinction between performance and potential. Drawing on decades of experience at PepsiCo and beyond, Allan challenges the simplistic assumptions that many organizations still rely on—particularly the idea that high performance automatically equates to high potential. Instead, he emphasizes that success in a current role predicts performance at a similar level of complexity, not necessarily at the next level, a nuance that is frequently overlooked in practice.

The discussion explores how organizations continue to rely on reductionist frameworks like the nine-box grid, often without the rigor or clarity needed to differentiate performance from potential effectively. Allan explains that most leaders struggle to make this distinction, especially when assessments are conducted simultaneously, leading to flawed talent decisions and reinforcing biases. He introduces a more structured and science-based perspective on potential, outlining key components such as cognitive ability, personality, motivation, learning agility, and leadership capability—many of which can be measured through validated tools rather than intuition alone.

A key theme throughout the conversation is the tension between simplicity and accuracy. Organizations often seek clean, easy answers, but Allan argues that meaningful talent evaluation requires embracing complexity and using multiple data sources. He also highlights the importance of customized leadership models that reflect an organization’s strategy and future direction, rather than relying on generic frameworks. These models not only guide assessment but also align development, feedback, and succession planning in a cohesive way.

The conversation also dives into the evolving role of AI in talent assessment. While AI can aggregate and analyze large amounts of data, Allan cautions that it is only as good as the inputs and outcomes it is trained on. Without a clear definition of potential and robust underlying data, AI risks reinforcing existing misconceptions rather than improving decision-making. He also raises important ethical considerations around monitoring and data collection, noting the potential trade-offs between insight and trust.

Beyond assessment, Allan addresses broader challenges in talent management systems, including the persistent dissatisfaction with performance management. He describes it as a “no-win” system—necessary for differentiation and feedback, yet universally disliked. Rather than seeking a perfect solution, he suggests organizations focus on execution, consistency, and alignment with business needs. Similarly, he argues that many failures in succession planning stem not from flawed design, but from poor follow-through.

Throughout the episode, Allan brings a systems-thinking perspective, emphasizing that talent management must balance investment in high potentials with development opportunities for the broader workforce. He challenges the false dichotomy between elite talent focus and inclusive development, advocating for a more integrated approach that supports both organizational performance and employee growth.

This episode is packed with practical wisdom, candid reflections, and thought-provoking perspectives on how organizations can move beyond outdated assumptions and build more effective, evidence-based approaches to people analytics and talent strategy.

If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.