Directionally Correct, A People Analytics Podcast

• #146 - Ludek Stehlik - What are the most sophisticated methods in people analytics? And what does it take to be a people analytics 'expert'?

  Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, Ludek Stehlik, People Data Science Expert at Sanofi! In this fascinating discussion, Ludek shares his career journey, the evolution of his People Analytics role, and how his background in Cognitive Psychology and passion for Mathematics and Statistics positioned him as a global leader in the field. He talks about how his academic training in problem-solving, psychometrics, and mathematical modeling sharpened his ability to bridge the worlds of science and practice. Ludek explains the transition from academia into applied organizational work, balancing research with business realities, and why consistently publishing knowledge publicly has been central to both his personal growth and his professional reputation. Ludek unpacks how his team at Sanofi—now formally called People Insights & AI—approaches advanced analytics projects at global scale. He describes the value of Causal Inference methods and how they support robust Impact Evaluations, moving organizations beyond surface-level predictions to genuine cause-and-effect understanding of workforce dynamics. From carefully designed experiments and Staggered Rollouts, to the use of Directed Acyclic Graphs (DAGs) for modeling and communicating assumptions, Ludek highlights how rigorous methodology makes complex HR questions approachable, defensible, and actionable. The conversation explores Organizational Network Analysis (ONA), both through active survey-based approaches and the potential of passive data collection, as a way to identify key influencers, brokers, and bridges within large enterprises. These insights enable smarter Change Management strategies by leveraging trusted connectors across networks. Ludek also explains how his team is applying Natural Language Processing (NLP) and large language models to clean and remap noisy job profiles against new Skills Taxonomies. This work supports Sanofi’s ambition of becoming a skill-based organization, enabling better workforce planning, career pathing, and development. Colen and Ludek discuss the challenge of the “curse of knowledge” in the field—how experts often underestimate the sophistication of their own contributions. Ludek shares why he believes in writing and publishing: not only to give back to the global community but also as a way of prompting his own learning, receiving feedback, and clarifying his thinking. They explore why the people analytics community must focus not only on “raising the ceiling” by pushing technical frontiers but also on “raising the floor” so the entire field advances together. Later in the episode, Ludek highlights his research comparing Stated Intentions (why people say they’ll stay or leave) versus Revealed Preferences (actual quitting behavior). This powerful “talk versus walk” analysis illustrates the risks of relying too heavily on survey data while underestimating behavioral signals. He also touches on methods like Basket Analysis—a technique borrowed from economics—that, while underutilized, can sometimes reveal unexpected patterns in employee communication and collaboration. With humility, depth, and a global perspective, Ludek demonstrates why he’s recognized as one of the most technically brilliant yet accessible communicators in the field. Whether you’re a practitioner eager to sharpen your skills, an academic looking for applied examples, or a leader seeking the next frontier in workforce intelligence, this episode is packed with actionable insights, advanced methodologies, and genuine inspiration. If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.

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• #145 - Alexis Fink - Who has the best people analytics team? And what does the future hold for Alexis?

  Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest Alexis Fink, Principal at Propeller Insight and People Analytics & Workforce Strategy Leader at Meta, Microsoft, and Intel! In this wide-ranging conversation, Alexis explains how she’s “flunking retirement” while joyfully redefining her post-corporate season—teaching, advising, mentoring, and shaping the future of work. She reflects on leading premier people analytics teams at tech giants, explains why IO psychology remains the backbone of workforce strategy, and warns against the tyranny of dashboards that keeps analytics groups endlessly building visualizations instead of delivering true business value. Alexis offers insight into the rise of AI and its impact on job design. She emphasizes breaking work into tasks before automating anything—arguing that rethinking business processes is more powerful than simply rewriting job descriptions. By mapping tasks and evaluating where automation creates efficiency or new possibilities, organizations can achieve meaningful transformation and avoid what she calls the “BS economy”—roles and activities that add little real value and are increasingly exposed by technology. The discussion spans her experiences hosting Intel’s AI podcast, the thrill of interviewing global CEOs on frontier technology, and lessons from her Fast Company piece on the future of work. Alexis underscores the enduring relevance of workforce planning, job analysis, and sound data governance. She names today’s most advanced people analytics teams—highlighting pioneers like Google for evidence-based HR, Microsoft for engineering-led analytics culture, Meta for blending people analytics with workforce strategy, and other standout organizations such as Walmart, insurance carriers, and pharmaceutical companies whose actuarial rigor produces remarkable insights. Along the way, Alexis and host Cole explore the balance between data science sophistication and human-centered insight, showing how modern people analytics demands both disciplines. You’ll also hear about the upcoming Leading Edge Consortium, a community-driven event blending organizational psychology, business acumen, and analytics. Alexis describes how curated content, nonprofit roots, and cross-disciplinary panels make it a must-attend for anyone serious about the next era of people analytics. The conference’s structure—designed by instructional experts—ensures sessions that educate, challenge, and inspire rather than simply showcasing flashy dashboards. Beyond the professional realm, Alexis shares personal stories revealing the depth of her life experiences. She recounts summers restoring a nearly century-old log cabin with her mother, an unexpected teenage job handling cash for a Chicago mob-connected business (“my first lesson in risk management,” she jokes), and her love of mountains, forests, and travel—Machu Picchu remains high on her bucket list. Recently she’s been taking bass guitar lessons, showing her passion for continual learning extends beyond analytics. Alexis and Cole also dive into scientific writing and the need for clarity over jargon. They stress that impactful research must clearly state why a study is done, how it’s conducted, what is found, and why it matters. This disciplined communication, rooted in IO psychology, ensures evidence-based insights influence executives and drive meaningful action. Alexis notes organizations adopting AI face a seismic shift, and professionals who combine rigorous analytics with human understanding are uniquely positioned to guide the transition. If you like this episode, explore prior episodes at colenapper.com. This conversation is a masterclass in blending rigorous analytics, human-centered design, and forward-looking strategy to shape the future of work—ethical, evidence-based, and people-first.

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• #144 - AJ Herrmann - People Analytics at the CIA, Cognitive Biases, and Task Intelligence

  Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, AJ Herrmann, Previous Executive Director of Strategic Workforce Planning at Cleveland Clinic! Hosts Cole Napper and Scott Hines welcome AJ for an in-depth conversation that spans covert intelligence work, advanced people analytics, and the human side of workforce strategy. AJ takes listeners behind the curtain of his extraordinary career. Before entering the private sector, he spent a decade as a CIA intelligence analyst and White House briefer, sharpening the analytic tradecraft that now powers his corporate insights. He explains how long nights preparing the President’s Daily Brief demanded precision, discipline, and the ability to question every assumption—skills that translate directly into strategic decision-making for business leaders. With candor and humor, AJ separates Hollywood myth from reality: no car chases, few gadgets, and a lot of quiet, meticulous work at “the Agency,” where influence comes from rigorous analysis and trust. Moving from national security to global corporations wasn’t a simple leap. AJ describes how the transition to management consulting and eventually Cleveland Clinic required the same curiosity and persistence that guided him in government service. At the Clinic, he led transformative role redesign projects to confront healthcare staffing shortages. Rather than simply trying to hire more people, AJ and his team deconstructed jobs task by task, challenging long-standing processes and surfacing hidden inefficiencies. He shares vivid examples of how mapping real workforce activity—down to informal hallway conversations and unrecorded duties—revealed opportunities to redistribute tasks, empower employees, and dramatically improve patient care. Cole and Scott steer the conversation into the future of work and the realities of AI. AJ warns leaders not to fall for vendor hype or “pixie dust” promises. Automation, he argues, changes tasks, not entire jobs overnight. Successful adoption begins with deep understanding of the work itself and the people who perform it. Only then can organizations deploy technology that truly augments human capability. He highlights uniquely human advantages—empathy, creativity, complex problem-solving—that machines cannot replicate and that HR and analytics professionals must champion as they design tomorrow’s organizations. Throughout the episode, listeners also get to enjoy the lighter side of AJ’s journey. From legendary office pranks involving packing peanuts and a life-size Chewbacca to amusing “confusion matrix” games and a story about wearing a fedora in New Orleans, AJ shows that even a former spy appreciates humor and connection. Cole and Scott join in, reflecting on how curiosity, humility, and a willingness to test boundaries can strengthen any team. The discussion ultimately paints a comprehensive picture of how modern analytics can drive smarter, more humane business decisions. Whether it’s identifying weak signals in global intelligence or surfacing trends in employee data, AJ demonstrates that rigorous analysis and a commitment to truth are universal tools. He offers practical advice for HR leaders, data scientists, and executives seeking to balance innovation with ethics: challenge every assumption, question your own bias, and remember that culture and trust outlast any technology cycle. Listeners interested in leadership, workforce strategy, or simply an inspiring career path will find value in every minute of this conversation. AJ’s insights bridge worlds—government and private sector, covert operations and transparent leadership, cutting-edge AI and timeless human connection—showing that the best workforce planning begins with understanding people at the deepest level. If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.

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• #143 - Cole and Scott - Embarrassing Job Interview Stories & More

  Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with hosts, Cole Napper and Scott Hines where we talk about embarrassing and challenging stories from our interview experiences to assure listeners that they are not alone in facing difficulties! In this lively and very human conversation, Cole and Scott swap hilarious, cringe-worthy, and sometimes painful tales from their job-search journeys, showing that behind every polished résumé are countless moments of failure, awkwardness, and resilience. The episode kicks off with the hosts admitting that failure is universal and that job hunting often feels isolating—what they call the “Instagram effect,” where everyone else seems to be thriving while you quietly struggle. From there, they dive into a series of unforgettable anecdotes: Scott flying to Los Angeles only to discover his Goodwill suit reeked of must and was covered in deodorant polka dots, and Cole accidentally changing clothes in a company lobby under a security camera. They recall being left behind during a fire drill, enduring marathon interviews without a bathroom break, and even confronting bizarre recruiter questions like “How many windows are in New York City?” or “Do you look after you wipe?” Beyond the laughs, the discussion highlights real red flags in hiring practices—companies that expect candidates to pay for their own travel, organizations that delay reimbursement for months, and workplaces where culture reveals itself through small but telling symbols. Cole and Scott weave these stories into larger reflections on workplace dynamics, from the psychological toll of ostracism (shown in research to hurt more than harassment) to the importance of structured interviews that reduce bias and personality clashes. The conversation also explores the intersection of people analytics and technology. They reference cutting-edge studies on AI reliability in hiring, cautioning companies about automated scoring without a human in the loop. They debate the sustainability of the current AI bubble, noting the massive capital expenditures of big tech compared to modest revenues and the hidden compute costs that make profitability elusive. For listeners in HR tech and analytics, these insights resonate far beyond funny interview stories. Adding depth, the hosts bring in research on personality and career outcomes, such as the long-term Terman study showing that early ambition predicts career success and that job satisfaction by age 30 strongly forecasts midlife fulfillment. They discuss how high conscientiousness correlates with lower frustration in everyday tasks and how loneliness can derail even the most capable people—whether in the wilderness on the TV show Alone or in the modern workplace. Throughout the episode, Cole and Scott remind us that setbacks and awkward moments are not just inevitable but formative. Their openness about personal missteps—from ill-timed phone calls during interviews to “half-pregnant” presentations where they tried to please everyone—underscores a key lesson: growth often comes from the uncomfortable spaces where plans go sideways. By sharing their own stumbles, they aim to “lower the temperature in the room,” helping job seekers realize they’re not the only ones who have struggled, been ghosted, or bombed an interview. Whether you’re an HR professional, a data scientist, or anyone navigating career transitions, this episode blends humor with genuine guidance. It celebrates perseverance, self-awareness, and the value of community in the face of setbacks, making it both entertaining and surprisingly motivational. If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.

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• #142 - John Barry - HR Tech Voices Series Episode with HRBench

  John Barry, Co-CEO of HRBench, joins the Directionally Correct podcast for our latest HR Tech Voices Episode of 2025. If you like what you hear in this episode, check out HRBench here: https://www.hrbench.com. In this wide-ranging discussion, hosts Cole and Scott talk with John about the journey from classic-car tinkerer to a leading voice in HR technology. Along the way, you’ll hear how HRBench is helping mid-market companies and private-equity portfolios leapfrog years of technical debt and finally make people analytics practical, affordable, and strategic. John shares how he and long-time colleague Jeff Laliberte created a co-CEO model that pairs product vision with sales expertise, allowing HRBench to deliver instant insight by integrating data from more than 80 HR systems. Their mission is to replace error-prone Excel sheets with seamless data integration, offering best-in-class dashboards and reports “right out of the box,” so HR leaders can focus on strategy instead of spreadsheet wrangling. One highlight of the conversation is the Good Job Score, a research-backed engagement survey that ties employee experience directly to financial outcomes. John explains how HRBench partnered with Future of Work investors to scale this tool, giving companies a clear, comparable measure of employee engagement across departments and over time. The hosts also explore how private-equity investors are embracing HRBench. Roughly 60 percent of customers are PE-backed firms that need rapid visibility into turnover, hiring, and workforce costs across portfolios. By automating those metrics, HRBench saves teams dozens of reporting hours each quarter and helps investors pinpoint risks before they become expensive problems—proof that private equity is becoming a surprising driver of innovation in HR. Looking ahead, John describes the platform’s next chapter: layering artificial intelligence on top of its unified data to enable predictive modeling and scenario planning. Imagine forecasting headcount needs or simulating market-wage pressures the moment a competitor raises its minimum wage. HRBench is also rolling out advanced org-chart visualization tools that combine structure with live analytics, helping leaders see retention or performance trends manager by manager. Beyond the tech, John reflects on career lessons—embracing the minimum viable product mindset instead of perfectionism, “faking it till you make it,” and seeking complexity early in your career to accelerate growth. He shares how his own compensation-analytics tools once helped an employee secure a pay adjustment that changed a family’s life, underscoring HRBench’s bigger mission: to use technology to improve humanity. The conversation isn’t all spreadsheets and strategy. John talks about life on Cape Cod, surviving a brush with Hurricane Aaron, and his beloved 1967 Pontiac GTO. The hosts even wander into lucid dreaming, Ouija boards, and the future of mid-market HR, proving that great insights can mix with plenty of laughs. If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links. From mid-market HR challenges to cutting-edge people analytics, this conversation captures the excitement of a field where data, strategy, and human impact intersect—and shows how HRBench is redefining the future of work.

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