Directionally Correct, A People Analytics Podcast

Thanks to HRBench for powering this episode. To find out more about the company building the future of people intelligence, reach out to book a demo at hrbench.com/directionallycorrect !

Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, Suzanne Bell, Lead Scientist, NASA’s Behavioral Health & Performance Lab!

In this wide-ranging and deeply fascinating conversation, Cole Napper sits down with Suzanne Bell to explore one of the most unique and high-stakes applications of industrial-organizational psychology in the world: preparing human beings to live, work, and thrive in space. As a lead scientist at NASA, Suzanne shares how her team supports astronaut selection, behavioral health, team dynamics, cognitive readiness, sleep science, and mission performance as humanity prepares for a sustained return to deep space through the Artemis missions and eventually journeys to Mars.

The conversation dives into the enormous psychological and operational challenges associated with long-duration spaceflight. Suzanne explains how life aboard spacecraft like Orion differs dramatically from even the International Space Station, where astronauts already operate under isolation and confinement. Living in an extremely small shared environment with little privacy introduces new complexities around teamwork, adaptability, emotional regulation, and interpersonal dynamics. She discusses how NASA studies these conditions through both real missions and Earth-based analog environments, allowing researchers to better understand what makes teams resilient under prolonged stress.

Cole and Suzanne also unpack the science behind astronaut selection and what constitutes “fit to mission.” Suzanne explains that while technical expertise matters, behavioral competencies such as adaptability, teamwork, emotional stability, and the ability to both lead and follow become increasingly critical as missions grow longer and more isolated. She emphasizes that NASA applies rigorous scientist-practitioner principles, including competency modeling, multimethod assessment, and evidence-based selection systems, to identify individuals capable of succeeding in some of the harshest environments humans have ever encountered.

One of the most compelling sections of the discussion focuses on how humans adapt under stress. Suzanne shares insights from NASA’s growing database of individuals who have lived in isolated and confined environments, highlighting research showing that humans are remarkably adaptable but that transitions themselves often create the greatest challenges. Whether adjusting to microgravity, returning to Earth, or preparing for life on another planet, the process of adaptation places enormous demands on cognition, emotion, and physical functioning. She also reveals emerging findings showing that declines in positive affect during long-duration isolation can reduce task speed even when accuracy remains high, reinforcing the importance of emotional well-being for mission success.

The conversation also explores Bayesian statistics, small-sample research, and how NASA approaches evidence generation in situations where only a handful of astronauts may ever participate in a mission. Suzanne explains how her lab transformed its data infrastructure to aggregate findings across missions and simulations, enabling faster learning cycles and more effective decision-making for future Artemis missions. The discussion becomes a masterclass in applied research design, demonstrating how rigorous analytics can still thrive in environments with limited data but extraordinarily high consequences.

Cole and Suzanne also spend significant time discussing AI, ethics, and the future of scientist-practitioner work. Suzanne shares how NASA is thinking about AI-assisted monitoring and Earth-independent operations for future Mars missions where communication delays make real-time support from Earth impossible. Together they explore the ethical responsibilities researchers have to engage with emerging technologies proactively, ensuring science helps shape responsible adoption rather than reacting after the fact.

Beyond the science, the episode offers a deeply human look into Suzanne herself, including her routines, leadership philosophy, curiosity about the world, and perspective on balancing an incredibly demanding career with family life. The result is an inspiring conversation about psychology, leadership, teamwork, innovation, resilience, and the future of human exploration.

If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.

Thanks to HRBench for powering this episode. To find out more about the company building the future of people intelligence, reach out to book a demo at hrbench.com/directionallycorrect !

Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, Allan Church, Co-Founder and Managing Partner at Maestro Consulting!

In this wide-ranging and deeply insightful conversation, Cole Napper sits down with Allan Church to unpack one of the most debated and often misunderstood topics in the field of talent management: the distinction between performance and potential. Drawing on decades of experience at PepsiCo and beyond, Allan challenges the simplistic assumptions that many organizations still rely on—particularly the idea that high performance automatically equates to high potential. Instead, he emphasizes that success in a current role predicts performance at a similar level of complexity, not necessarily at the next level, a nuance that is frequently overlooked in practice.

The discussion explores how organizations continue to rely on reductionist frameworks like the nine-box grid, often without the rigor or clarity needed to differentiate performance from potential effectively. Allan explains that most leaders struggle to make this distinction, especially when assessments are conducted simultaneously, leading to flawed talent decisions and reinforcing biases. He introduces a more structured and science-based perspective on potential, outlining key components such as cognitive ability, personality, motivation, learning agility, and leadership capability—many of which can be measured through validated tools rather than intuition alone.

A key theme throughout the conversation is the tension between simplicity and accuracy. Organizations often seek clean, easy answers, but Allan argues that meaningful talent evaluation requires embracing complexity and using multiple data sources. He also highlights the importance of customized leadership models that reflect an organization’s strategy and future direction, rather than relying on generic frameworks. These models not only guide assessment but also align development, feedback, and succession planning in a cohesive way.

The conversation also dives into the evolving role of AI in talent assessment. While AI can aggregate and analyze large amounts of data, Allan cautions that it is only as good as the inputs and outcomes it is trained on. Without a clear definition of potential and robust underlying data, AI risks reinforcing existing misconceptions rather than improving decision-making. He also raises important ethical considerations around monitoring and data collection, noting the potential trade-offs between insight and trust.

Beyond assessment, Allan addresses broader challenges in talent management systems, including the persistent dissatisfaction with performance management. He describes it as a “no-win” system—necessary for differentiation and feedback, yet universally disliked. Rather than seeking a perfect solution, he suggests organizations focus on execution, consistency, and alignment with business needs. Similarly, he argues that many failures in succession planning stem not from flawed design, but from poor follow-through.

Throughout the episode, Allan brings a systems-thinking perspective, emphasizing that talent management must balance investment in high potentials with development opportunities for the broader workforce. He challenges the false dichotomy between elite talent focus and inclusive development, advocating for a more integrated approach that supports both organizational performance and employee growth.

This episode is packed with practical wisdom, candid reflections, and thought-provoking perspectives on how organizations can move beyond outdated assumptions and build more effective, evidence-based approaches to people analytics and talent strategy.

If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.

Thanks to HRBench for powering this episode. To find out more about the company building the future of people intelligence, reach out to book a demo at hrbench.com/directionallycorrect !

Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guests, John Barry, Co-CEO at HRBench, Matt Maguire, CRO at HRBench and Brandon Collins, CTO at HRBench!

In this wide-ranging and highly practical conversation, host Cole Napper sits down with the leadership team behind HRBench to explore how decades of shared experience in HR tech have shaped their vision for the future of people intelligence. What stands out immediately is the deep working history among the trio—relationships built over years at companies like Salary.com and PayFactors—which has translated into a strong foundation of trust, alignment, and execution speed as they build HRBench.

At the core of the discussion is a simple but powerful idea: data should be the foundation of every HR decision. The team reflects on how their early work in compensation analytics revealed a broader gap across HR—organizations lacked a unified way to bring together workforce data, understand it, and act on it strategically. HRBench was built to solve exactly that, consolidating disparate HR data into a single system that enables faster insights, benchmarking, and decision-making without months of manual reporting work.

A recurring theme throughout the episode is the rapid commoditization of traditional people analytics capabilities. Dashboards, reporting, and even predictive analytics are becoming easier and cheaper to build, largely due to advances in AI. But rather than diminishing the field, the guests argue this shift raises the bar. The real value is no longer in producing reports—it’s in driving action, enabling better decisions, and embedding intelligence directly into business workflows.

The conversation also dives into how AI is transforming both product development and organizational productivity. Brandon shares how engineering workflows have fundamentally changed, with AI agents now writing and reviewing code, dramatically compressing development timelines. At the same time, Matt highlights how customers are using tools like HRBench alongside AI to achieve output levels that previously required much larger teams, signaling a major shift in how HR functions scale.

Despite the excitement around AI, the group is clear-eyed about its limitations. Data quality, security, and business context remain critical challenges. “Garbage in, garbage out” still applies, and organizations must be thoughtful about how they manage sensitive employee data. Trust—both in the data and in the people interpreting it—continues to be essential, especially when insights inform high-stakes decisions.

Looking ahead, the discussion turns to the future of people analytics as part of a broader intelligence layer within organizations. Rather than siloed functions like workforce planning, talent analytics, and behavioral science, the field is converging into a unified capability focused on generating and applying insight. The team envisions a future where organizations can model themselves as digital twins, simulating workforce decisions and understanding their impact across the business in real time.

They also touch on emerging areas like qualitative data analysis, workforce transformation, and the evolving definition of work in an AI-driven world. Across all of it, one idea remains consistent: organizations that can combine high-quality data with actionable intelligence—quickly and affordably—will have a significant competitive advantage.

Blending strategic insight with candid moments and humor, this episode offers a clear window into how experienced builders in HR tech are thinking about the next chapter of the industry and why the shift from people analytics to people intelligence is already underway.

If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.

Thanks to HRBench for powering this episode. To find out more about the company building the future of people intelligence, reach out to book a demo at hrbench.com/directionallycorrect !

Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, Jennifer Wilson, Partner and Global Co-Head, HR Officers Practice at Heidrick & Struggles!

In this wide-ranging and deeply practical conversation, Cole Napper sits down with Jennifer Wilson to unpack how the role of the Chief Human Resources Officer is evolving in real time—and why the expectations for HR leadership have never been higher. Jennifer shares her unconventional path into executive search, describing how her early career in consulting and global work across Hong Kong and the US shaped her perspective on leadership, organizational design, and the human side of business transformation. What emerges is a clear view of executive search not just as recruiting, but as a front-row seat to how leadership itself is changing.

A major theme throughout the discussion is the rapid expansion of the CHRO role. Drawing on research from Heidrick & Struggles, Jennifer explains how the number of required capabilities for CHROs has nearly doubled over the past decade, reflecting the growing complexity of the job. Today’s CHRO is no longer an administrative leader but a strategic enterprise partner expected to connect business strategy with people strategy, advise CEOs directly, and lead through ambiguity. The conversation highlights how skills like AI enablement, workforce planning, succession strategy, and organizational design are becoming essential, alongside enduring traits like empathy, judgment, and high emotional intelligence.

The discussion goes deep on AI’s impact, particularly the idea of an “AI-native CHRO.” Jennifer is candid that such profiles are still rare, with most leaders only having partial exposure to AI-driven transformation. Rather than searching for perfect technical expertise, organizations are prioritizing curiosity, adaptability, and the ability to lead change. This reflects a broader shift: the future of HR leadership is less about mastering every domain and more about integrating across them.

Cole and Jennifer also explore career pathways into the CHRO role, including the limitations of traditional HR development models. They discuss why many leaders lack the breadth of experience required and why moving from a number two role into the top job is such a significant leap. People analytics emerges as a particularly interesting lens—while it offers a unique enterprise-wide perspective, Jennifer notes that it cannot be the sole foundation for a future CHRO. Exposure to business leadership, operational accountability, and direct advisory experience remains critical.

The conversation also demystifies executive search, clarifying a common misconception: search firms work for companies, not candidates. While building relationships can help, relying solely on headhunters is not a viable career strategy. This insight grounds the discussion in reality, emphasizing the importance of proactive career management.

In the latter part of the episode, the conversation broadens to hiring practices, assessment tools, and the growing intersection between HR and technology. Jennifer pushes back on the idea of merging CHRO and CTO roles, arguing instead for stronger collaboration rather than unrealistic “unicorn” expectations. The future, she suggests, will depend on how effectively leaders integrate human and technical systems to drive organizational success.

Throughout, Jennifer paints a compelling picture of the ideal HR leader for the future: engaging, empathetic, data-driven, agile, and capable of navigating constant change. It’s a vision that challenges both current leaders and aspiring ones to rethink how they build skills, gain experience, and lead in an increasingly complex world.

If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.

Thanks to HRBench for powering this episode. To find out more about the company building the future of people intelligence, reach out to book a demo at hrbench.com/directionallycorrect

Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast special guest, Kinsey Li, Author of "People Analytics Explained" and Advisor at PwC!

In this wide-ranging and deeply thoughtful conversation, host Cole Napper sits down with Kinsey to explore what it truly takes to succeed in people analytics beyond the technical skills that often dominate the narrative.

Kinsey shares the inspiration behind her book, which emerged from her own early frustrations breaking into the field. Despite completing courses and gaining certifications, she found a major gap between technical training and the real-world capabilities required to be effective. Her core insight reframes the discipline: people analytics is not primarily about data, but about relationships. In her experience, success in the field is closer to 80% stakeholder management and 20% technical execution, a perspective that challenges how many professionals approach their development.

The conversation dives into the consulting mindset that has shaped Kinsey’s career, highlighting two essential skills: scoping and listening. She explains that scoping is fundamentally about defining boundaries—understanding what problem you are solving, what success looks like, and just as importantly, what you will not address. In a field where organizational challenges are deeply interconnected, the ability to prioritize and maintain focus is critical. This requires not only analytical thinking but also confidence and judgment to push back when necessary.

Kinsey also offers a fascinating look at how cultural context shapes people analytics work. Drawing on her experience across Australia, the UK, and now Jakarta, she contrasts Western and Eastern workplace dynamics. In more hierarchical environments, decisions can be executed بسرعة and scaled quickly, but often with less consultation. At the same time, she notes that some of the most advanced people analytics practices exist in small, less visible pockets across Asia, where innovation happens quietly without widespread sharing.

The discussion expands into themes of career growth and learning, reinforcing the idea that breadth of experience often outweighs early specialization. Kinsey connects this to probabilistic thinking, emphasizing that careers are less like chess and more like poker, where exposure to diverse experiences increases the likelihood of long-term success. This aligns with Cole’s own reflections on building expertise through multidisciplinary exposure rather than narrow focus.

They also explore evolving attitudes toward AI and data privacy, particularly among younger generations. Kinsey observes that digital natives are more willing to delegate thinking to AI and are often more comfortable sharing personal data, a shift that has significant implications for the future of people analytics. At the same time, both highlight the importance of maintaining ethical guardrails as capabilities expand.

Throughout the episode, Kinsey brings a candid and personal perspective, discussing how her evolving mindset, including embracing a “default trust” approach and navigating neurodiversity, has shaped how she works and interacts with others. Her journey underscores that effectiveness in people analytics is as much about self-awareness and adaptability as it is about technical skill.

This episode is a compelling reminder that the future of people analytics will be defined not just by better data, but by better thinking, stronger relationships, and a deeper understanding of how work actually gets done across different contexts and cultures. If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.