The Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy

Welcome to the Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy, hosted by Drs. James Hawkins, Ph.D., LPC, and Ryan Rana, Ph.D., LMFT, LPC—Renowned ICEEFT Therapists, Supervisors, and Trainers. We're thrilled to have you with us. We believe this podcast, a valuable resource, will empower you to push the boundaries in your work, helping individuals and couples connect more deeply with themselves and each other. In this episode of “Push the Leading Edge”, James Hawkins and Ryan Rana dive into one of the most anxiety‑provoking parts of EFT: when the caregiving system red-lights right in the middle of beautiful vulnerability. Drawing on attachment theory and years of EFT training experience, they explore “caregiving nightmares”—those predictable moments when a partner can’t respond with comfort, even when their loved one is wide open and reaching. They unpack how pursuers and withdrawers each bring their attachment strategies into the caregiving role: withdrawers often “loan out their avoidance” as a form of love, and pursuers “up the ante” as their way of fighting for the bond. Rather than shaming these moves or bypassing them to “get to the heart,” James and Ryan show how to move toward the blocks themselves as emotional material, validating the attachment logic inside them and using structured, attuned interventions to help partners reclaim their caregiving systems. With rich clinical examples, regulation strategies for therapists, and practical language you can use tomorrow, this episode helps you trust the process, trust the caregiving system, and stay with the red lights long enough for new attachment experiences to emerge. Main Points from the Episode Framing: “Caregiving Nightmares” & Red Lights  - Focus on stage 2 / step 6 caregiving positions, and the “back half” of vulnerable enactments.    - The “red light” is the blocked caregiving system: the partner can’t offer simple comfort even when they want to. Predictable Attachment Patterns in Caregiving  - Withdrawers as caregivers:    - “Loan out their avoidance” or self-reliance: advice, positivity, “be comfortable in your own skin.”      - This is a form of love and responsiveness, but often misattuned.    - Pursuers as caregivers:      - “Up the ante”: test, push, or kick the tires on vulnerability (“it’s just words,” “you only do this in here”).      - Driven by hope and fear of being dropped again. Therapist Regulation & Preparation  - Pre‑regulate before couples sessions; expect blocks as part of the process, not a failure.  - If the therapist dysregulates, you now have three protection systems in the room. Working with Withdrawer Red Lights  - Steps:    1. Regulate yourself.        2. Offer an attuned, assertive interruption (contain the cycle).        3. Give 3–5 concrete validations of the withdrawer’s strategy as attachment‑driven care.        4. Reframe the strategy’s attachment function (“this is how you love/protect”).        5. Then gently move toward the part that wants to reach.      - Don’t bypass the strategy; work with it as emotional material. Working with Pursuer Red Lights  - Normalize that pursuers often lash out or test the first vulnerabilities they’ve begged for.    - Validate their vision, hope, and fight for the relationship (3–5 validations).      - Help them notice their somatic/empathic response to the partner’s pain (1% of reach or comfort).      - Avoid shaming language like “you’re going to your head.” Use of Numbers & Repetition  - “Magic” 3–5 validations to regulate a nervous system.    - Sue Johnson’s idea: clients often don’t really hear you until about the 5th repetition. Tourniquets & Sender Protection  - After a strong send + strong red light, layer tourniquets on the sender so they:    - Feel caught and not blamed.        - Are reinforced to risk again.      - Never make the sender give up their experience just to soothe the blocked caregiver. Trusting the Caregiving System  - Leanne Campbell’s idea: trusting the process = trusting the caregiving system.    - People do know how to care; the cycle paralyzes access.      - Our job is to create conditions for that caregiving instinct to re‑emerge experientially. Hope, Respect, and Attachment Change  - Both pursuer protest and withdrawer avoidance are hopeful, survival strategies.    - Change often comes through “begrudging respect”: seeing a partner fight their old pattern for the relationship. We aim to equip therapists with practical tools and encouragement for addressing relational distress. We're also excited to be part of the team behind Success in Vulnerability (SV)—your premier online education platform. SV offers innovative instruction to enhance your therapeutic effectiveness through exclusive modules and in-depth clinical examples.  Stay connected with us: Facebook: Follow our page @pushtheleadingedge Ryan: Follow @ryanranaprofessionaltraining on Facebook and visit his website James: Follow @dochawklpc on Facebook and Instagram, or visit his website at dochawklpc.com George Faller: Visit georgefaller.com If you like the concepts discussed on this podcast you can explore our online training program, Success in Vulnerability (SV). Thank you for being part of our community. Let's push the leading edge together!

Welcome to the Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy, hosted by Drs. James Hawkins, Ph.D., LPC, and Ryan Rana, Ph.D., LMFT, LPC—Renowned ICEEFT Therapists, Supervisors, and Trainers. We're thrilled to have you with us. We believe this podcast, a valuable resource, will empower you to push the boundaries in your work, helping individuals and couples connect more deeply with themselves and each other. Link to attend the online broadcast of the book launch Link to Purchase on Amazon  In this powerful conversation, Dr. James Hawkins sits down with Dr. Leanne Campbell to explore the heart of EFT and trauma and to honor the legacy of Dr. Sue Johnson. Leanne pulls back the curtain on writing the new EFT and Trauma text with Sue—sharing what it was like to co-create Sue’s final formal publication, how their moment‑by‑moment clinical commentary came to life, and why clarity in the model matters now more than ever.  Together, James and Leanne dive into the caregiving system, window of tolerance, and how EFT therapists can help clients move through trauma without retraumatizing, using themselves as temporary attachment figures. You’ll hear vivid clinical language and examples around: trusting the caregiving system, working with highly reactive couples, tracking your own nervous system as a therapist, and using transparency to give traumatized clients back their agency and hope.  This episode is a blend of theory, practical process, and deep emotion—a tribute to Sue’s legacy and an inspiring guide for any therapist working at the leading edge of EFT and trauma.  Main Points / Episode Highlights Leanne’s “Leading Edge” in EFT    - Getting radically clear about the model: moment‑by‑moment commentary on what therapists are doing and why.     - Making EFT more accessible and teachable through precision and process clarity. Trusting the Caregiving System    - “Trust the process” = “trust the caregiving system” when emotion and connection are alive in the room.     - Importance of responding in the same channel as the emotional bid (emotion with emotion, not facts or data).  Working on the EFT and Trauma Text with Sue Johnson    - The process was inspiring, clarifying, exhilarating, and at times sidelined by other EFiT projects.     - The book was well underway before Sue’s death and now stands as her last formal publication—a “parting gift” of stories of hope and resilience. Using the Therapist as a Temporary Attachment Figure    - Central answer to “How do I help clients move through trauma without retraumatizing them?”     - Therapist “sings the song and dances the dance of attunement,” keeping clients at their leading edge without overshooting the window of tolerance. “It Begins With Us” – The Therapist’s Nervous System    - Leanne tracks her own felt sense—especially with reactive couples—and uses it to guide interventions.     - She slows things down, names process elements (tone, eyes, posture) to:       - Validate the receiving partner.       - Grow awareness in the reactive partner whose nervous system is firing outside awareness. Window of Tolerance: Respect and Stretch    - Respecting the window of tolerance while stretching it—within sessions and in the client’s broader socio‑cultural context.     - Normalizing that trauma work often happens in cycles (do a piece, step back, integrate). Validation as Psychoeducation    - Validation reframes trauma responses as survival strategies, not character flaws.     - Helps the traumatized partner feel understood and the other partner release blame and grow compassion. Transparency Gives Agency    - Being explicit about what the therapist is doing and why (“the best surgeon explains the procedure”).     - Therapist’s transparency and emotional honesty give traumatized clients predictability and agency, reversing their history of non‑transparent harm. Parts / Versions and Rewriting Identity    - Leanne’s language of “versions” of self helps distinguish old survival strategies from the current, wiser self.     - Core EFT aim: “You are not your trauma.” Clients move from “This is who I am” to “This is a fear and a history I carry.” Hope and Resilience as the Core Message    - If listeners remember one thing: hope and belief in the power of human connection and healing.     - The book is intentionally a story of hope and resilience for clinicians and clients, continuing Sue’s attachment legacy. We aim to equip therapists with practical tools and encouragement for addressing relational distress. We're also excited to be part of the team behind Success in Vulnerability (SV)—your premier online education platform. SV offers innovative instruction to enhance your therapeutic effectiveness through exclusive modules and in-depth clinical examples.  Stay connected with us: Facebook: Follow our page @pushtheleadingedge Ryan: Follow @ryanranaprofessionaltraining on Facebook and visit his website James: Follow @dochawklpc on Facebook and Instagram, or visit his website at dochawklpc.com George Faller: Visit georgefaller.com If you like the concepts discussed on this podcast you can explore our online training program, Success in Vulnerability (SV). Thank you for being part of our community. Let's push the leading edge together!

Welcome to the Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy, hosted by Drs. James Hawkins, Ph.D., LPC, and Ryan Rana, Ph.D., LMFT, LPC—Renowned ICEEFT Therapists, Supervisors, and Trainers. We're thrilled to have you with us. We believe this podcast, a valuable resource, will empower you to push the boundaries in your work, helping individuals and couples connect more deeply with themselves and each other. Step into a heartfelt conversation where  Dr. James Hawkins and Nicola Hawkins explore the art of externalization in emotion-focused therapy. This episode delves into how therapists can gently guide clients into their most vulnerable spaces without overwhelming them—using creative, compassionate externalization techniques. Listeners will find practical strategies, authentic reflections, and moments of inspiration that underscore the importance of safety, attunement, and reintegration throughout the therapeutic journey. It’s a compassionate guide for every EFT therapist looking to expand their “toolkit” for helping clients move courageously into their own healing. Top Points from the Episode: - Upcoming training opportunities in EFT and gratitude for the therapy community, especially during challenging times. - The concept of externalization as a gentle intervention to help clients face vulnerability when direct approaches would overwhelm. - Creative metaphors and analogies—for example, “letting clients breathe but not leave”—to describe how to stay connected and supportive in tough moments. - Techniques for externalization: using third-person references, prototypes, past versions of self, and broader narratives to create safety. - The crucial process of reintegrating externalized parts to support clients’ healing and growth. - Reflection on the therapist’s role in providing validation, understanding, and new perspectives. - Practical adaptations for different cultural and client contexts, ensuring inclusivity and relevance. - Emphasis on co-creating meaning—from reframing past experiences to fostering autonomy and choice within sessions. - Encouragement for therapists to remain flexible, observant, and compassionate when clients hit emotional blocks. - Inspiring reminders about the transformative power of working on the client’s “leading edge”—where real change happens. We aim to equip therapists with practical tools and encouragement for addressing relational distress. We're also excited to be part of the team behind Success in Vulnerability (SV)—your premier online education platform. SV offers innovative instruction to enhance your therapeutic effectiveness through exclusive modules and in-depth clinical examples.  Stay connected with us: Facebook: Follow our page @pushtheleadingedge Ryan: Follow @ryanranaprofessionaltraining on Facebook and visit his website James: Follow @dochawklpc on Facebook and Instagram, or visit his website at dochawklpc.com George Faller: Visit georgefaller.com If you like the concepts discussed on this podcast you can explore our online training program, Success in Vulnerability (SV). Thank you for being part of our community. Let's push the leading edge together!

Welcome to the Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy, hosted by Drs. James Hawkins, Ph.D., LPC, and Ryan Rana, Ph.D., LMFT, LPC—Renowned ICEEFT Therapists, Supervisors, and Trainers. We're thrilled to have you with us. We believe this podcast, a valuable resource, will empower you to push the boundaries in your work, helping individuals and couples connect more deeply with themselves and each other.   In this episode, James and Nicola dive deep into the concept of transparency in therapy and training. They explore how openness about intentions, the process, and emotional reactions creates safety, builds trust, and models vulnerability for both clients and therapists. The discussion includes practical examples, personal stories, and tools for effective therapeutic transparency, plus a rundown of upcoming training events. To support our mission and help us continue producing impactful content, your financial contributions via Venmo (@leftpodcast) are greatly appreciated. They play a significant role in keeping this valuable resource available and are a testament to your commitment to our cause. We aim to equip therapists with practical tools and encouragement for addressing relational distress. We're also excited to be part of the team behind Success in Vulnerability (SV)—your premier online education platform. SV offers innovative instruction to enhance your therapeutic effectiveness through exclusive modules and in-depth clinical examples.  Stay connected with us: Facebook: Follow our page @pushtheleadingedge Ryan: Follow @ryanranaprofessionaltraining on Facebook and visit his website James: Follow @dochawklpc on Facebook and Instagram, or visit his website at dochawklpc.com George Faller: Visit georgefaller.com If you like the concepts discussed on this podcast you can explore our online training program, Success in Vulnerability (SV). Thank you for being part of our community. Let's push the leading edge together!

Welcome to the Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy, hosted by Drs. James Hawkins, Ph.D., LPC, and Ryan Rana, Ph.D., LMFT, LPC—Renowned ICEEFT Therapists, Supervisors, and Trainers. We're thrilled to have you with us. We believe this podcast, a valuable resource, will empower you to push the boundaries in your work, helping individuals and couples connect more deeply with themselves and each other. In this episode, the hosts kick off a brand-new mini-series exploring one of the most challenging dynamics in Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT): red-light caregiving responses—those pivotal moments when vulnerability is met with shutdown, panic, or defensive reactivity. Drawing on real cases, supervision moments, and personal experience as EFT trainers, James and Ryan clarify the difference between “green-light” and “red-light” caregiving, unpack why these responses emerge, and offer practical strategies for therapists in the heat of high-stakes attachment moments. To support our mission and help us continue producing impactful content, your financial contributions via Venmo (@leftpodcast) are greatly appreciated. They play a significant role in keeping this valuable resource available and are a testament to your commitment to our cause. We aim to equip therapists with practical tools and encouragement for addressing relational distress. We're also excited to be part of the team behind Success in Vulnerability (SV)—your premier online education platform. SV offers innovative instruction to enhance your therapeutic effectiveness through exclusive modules and in-depth clinical examples.  Stay connected with us: Facebook: Follow our page @pushtheleadingedge Ryan: Follow @ryanranaprofessionaltraining on Facebook and visit his website James: Follow @dochawklpc on Facebook and Instagram, or visit his website at dochawklpc.com George Faller: Visit georgefaller.com If you like the concepts discussed on this podcast you can explore our online training program, Success in Vulnerability (SV). Thank you for being part of our community. Let's push the leading edge together!