The School Can't Experience

Nina’s son was a bright, quirky young person who loved rocket science, coding and books. By high school he was having panic attacks every morning, and a ten minute walk to school could take an hour. Then, in Year 11, he was told that if he stayed in his ATAR subjects, his low marks would ruin his friends’ chances of success. When Nina investigated, she found the school was describing how the system is actually designed.
Content warning: This episode includes discussion of suicide, including the loss of young people in Nina’s children’s school communities. If that isn’t something you can hear right now, please skip this one or come back to it later
Dr Nina Rovis-Hermann is a mum of four, a former ballet dancer who left school after Year 9, and now an academic with a background in psychology and a PhD in education. She shares her family’s experience of School Can’t: supporting her son through anxiety and grief after losing a friend, getting him out of a school that no longer worked for him, and discovering that a TAFE diploma could get him to university a year earlier than his peers. He is now near the end of his degree.
Nina also shares what her research found when she asked: what makes a quality school? She followed ATAR students through Years 11 and 12, and even the young people the system is designed for described it as The Hunger Games, pitted against their friends and feeling they had no choice. She explains how NAPLAN, My School and competitive ranking shape what schools can prioritise, and why quality should be judged by what students experience, not just the results they produce.
Her advice for parents choosing a school: treat NAPLAN as one small snapshot, visit, watch how teachers and students speak to each other, trust your gut, and remember that no decision about school, subjects or university has to be forever.
Connect with Nina
Dr Nina Rovis-Hermann on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/nina-rovis-hermann-phd-84637572/
Related episodes from the archive
Episode 67 - Why Schools Must Ask Students What Helps, with Dr Haley Tancredi - https://schoolcantexperience.buzzsprout.com/2447546/episodes/19591101-67-why-schools-must-ask-students-what-helps-with-dr-haley-tancredi
Episode 73 - Stop Fixing the Kids, Fix the Conditions with Dr Shelley Moore - https://schoolcantexperience.buzzsprout.com/2447546/episodes/19801235-73-stop-fixing-the-kids-fix-the-conditions-with-dr-shelley-moore
Send us Fan Mail
Support the show
School Can’t Australia Facebook Community - https://www.facebook.com/groups/schoolphobiaschoolrefusalaustralia
If this podcast or the School Can’t Australia community has helped you, please consider making a donation or volunteering to help. Find out more here: https://www.schoolcantaustralia.com.au/get-involved#donate

If this episode helped you please take a moment to subscribe, rate, or review the podcast on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. It genuinely helps other School Can't families find us.
If you are a parent of carer in Australia and experiencing distress, please call Lifeline on 13 11 14 or contact the Parent Help Line. - https://kidshelpline.com.au/parents/issues/how-parentline-can-help-you
You can contact us to volunteer to share your School Can't story or some feedback via email on schoolcantpodcast@gmail.com
Disclaimer
The content of this podcast is based on personal lived experiences and is shared for informational and storytelling purposes only. It should not be treated as medical, psychological, or professional advice under any circumstances. If you have concerns about your health or well-being, please seek guidance from a doctor, therapist,...

At 20, Angelina is studying paramedicine at university and scoring 96% in her exams. A few years ago, she couldn’t get through a school day.
Angelina was a conscientious, high-achieving student until Year 10, when she suddenly found she couldn’t do her schoolwork, even in subjects she loved. She describes it like trying to touch a hot plate: you want to, but your brain physically stops you. Anxiety and low mood followed, and with them a cycle many families will recognise: the work brought her down, which made the work harder, which brought her down further.
Angelina speaks candidly about what made things worse. She didn’t ask for help, and instead told her parents and the front office she was sick. Psychologists found no diagnosis, which left her feeling the problem was simply her.  An early assessment found real gaps, but because her teachers described her as quiet and well behaved, nothing came of it. She was told that without an ATAR she wouldn’t go anywhere, but ultimately felt she had to leave school.
A year of full time work at a local toy store gave her space, confidence and the realisation that at work, unlike school, nothing followed her home. Then Angelina discovered what she wanted to do. A university foundation studies course led her straight into paramedicine, no ATAR required.
Angelina shares what she wishes she’d known in Year 10, what she’d like parents and teachers to understand, and why her parents now tell her that leaving school was the best decision she ever made. This is the story she wished someone had told her, and a hopeful one for any young person who feels their future depends on getting through Year 12.
More Student Voice episodes from the archive
Episode 30 - Simone & Yani’s Lived Experience - https://schoolcantexperience.buzzsprout.com/2447546/episodes/17807153-30-simone-yani-s-lived-experience
Episode 39 - Melisa & Jamie’s Lived Experience - https://schoolcantexperience.buzzsprout.com/2447546/episodes/17807153-30-simone-yani-s-lived-experience
Episode 49 - Claire & Althea’s Lived Experience - https://schoolcantexperience.buzzsprout.com/2447546/episodes/18807842
Episode 66 - School Captain to School Can’t, Alex & Laila’s Lived Experience - https://schoolcantexperience.buzzsprout.com/2447546/episodes/19554815-66-school-captain-to-school-can-t-alex-laila-s-lived-experience
Send us Fan Mail
Support the show
School Can’t Australia Facebook Community - https://www.facebook.com/groups/schoolphobiaschoolrefusalaustralia
If this podcast or the School Can’t Australia community has helped you, please consider making a donation or volunteering to help. Find out more here: https://www.schoolcantaustralia.com.au/get-involved#donate

If this episode helped you please take a moment to subscribe, rate, or review the podcast on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. It genuinely helps other School Can't families find us.
If you are a parent of carer in Australia and experiencing distress, please call Lifeline on 13 11 14 or contact the Parent Help Line. - https://kidshelpline.com.au/parents/issues/how-parentline-can-help-you
You can contact us to volunteer to share your School Can't story or some feedback via email on schoolcantpodcast@gmail.com
Disclaimer
The content of this podcast is based on personal lived experiences and is shared for informational and storytelling purposes only. It should not be treated as medical, psychological, or professional advice under any circumstances. If you have concerns about your health or well-being, please seek guidance from a doctor, therapist,...

This episode is a collaboration between School Can't Australia and Yellow Ladybugs made possible through funding from the Information, Linkages and Capacity Building Grant.
This is the second of two special episodes with Yellow Ladybugs, who are dedicated to the happiness, success, and celebration of autistic girls, women, and gender diverse folk.
Leisa is joined again by founder Katie Koullas and Natasha Staheli. In the first episode of this series, they talked about distress that is channelled outwards. This time, the conversation turns to distress that is channelled inwards: self-harm and suicidal ideation in our young people, and what it is like to parent through it.
Content warning: This episode contains detailed discussion of parenting young people who are self-harming and experiencing suicidal ideation. Please take care of yourself as you listen. Hit pause whenever you need to, and come back when you're ready.
If you or your young person are not safe right now, please call Triple Zero (000) for assistance. If you are feeling overwhelmed or distressed, please reach out to Lifeline: call 13 11 14, text 0477 13 11 14, or chat online at lifeline.org.au.
This is a conversation that almost never happens in public. Katie, Natasha, and Leisa talk about why families carry this so privately, why autistic and high-masking young people are especially vulnerable, particularly in the early teen years, and why well-meant reassurance and problem-solving can land as not being heard.
They explore what it means to respond rather than react, starting with "I believe you". They cover safety planning, protective factors such as peer connection, a safe place to unmask, and access to joy, and the difference between an acute crisis and the chronic, long-running experience that many families quietly live with. They also talk honestly about how hard it is to judge when hospital is the right call, and about the hypervigilance, guilt, and exhaustion that parents carry along the way.
There is no fix-it list in this episode, and no perfect response. What there is: three parents speaking plainly about a reality many families are living, and the reminder that many young people do come through this and look back grateful for the adults who stayed alongside them.
Nothing in this conversation replaces professional advice about your own child's safety. If you are worried about immediate risk, please seek help straight away.
You are not alone.
Resources:
Yellow Ladybugs Safety Plan Template: https://yellowladybugs.sharepoint.com/:b:/s/YellowLadybugs/IQBakAfYPN5_Sa7vDqFR6b8ZAUayZhsJcXpemWtLhY-_52s?e=Fveiii
Yellow Ladybugs: yellowladybugs.com.au
Olga Tennison Autism Research Centre (OTARC): https://www.latrobe.edu.au/otarc
 Two key resources developed by OTARC-led projects are: span.toolkit: The Suicide Prevention for Autism Neuro-affirming Toolkit (span.toolkit) is an evidence-based, co-produced resource portal designed to support mental health professionals working with autistic adults. https://www.spantoolkit.com/
 The Suicide Response Project: Provides tips for the general public on how to detect and respond to suicide risk in others https://www.suicideresponseproject.com/

An example of the personalised DBT skills poster Katie created for her child, along with an editable Canva template families can adapt to suit their own child or young person: https://canva.link/ec1gxv72rj4lm2i
Mental Health first aid training for parents (other providers widely available): https://neuronavigators.com.au/mental-health-first-aid
Episode 72 - Part 1 in this series: When distress turns outwards - https://schoolcantexperience.buzzsprout.com/2447546/episodes/19765352
Episode 66, From School Captain to School Can't: Alex & Laila's Lived Experience: https://schoolcantexperience.buzzsprout.com/2447546/episodes/19554815
Send us Fan Mail
Support the show
School Can’t Australia Facebook Community - https://www.facebook.com/groups/schoolphobiaschoolrefusalaustralia
If this podcast or the School Can’t Australia community has helped you, please consider making a donation or volunteering to help. Find out more here: https://www.schoolcantaustralia.com.au/get-involved#donate

If this episode helped you please take a moment to subscribe, rate, or review the podcast on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. It genuinely helps other School Can't families find us.
If you are a parent of carer in Australia and experiencing distress, please call Lifeline on 13 11 14 or contact the Parent Help Line. - https://kidshelpline.com.au/parents/issues/how-parentline-can-help-you
You can contact us to volunteer to share your School Can't story or some feedback via email on schoolcantpodcast@gmail.com
Disclaimer
The content of this podcast is based on personal lived experiences and is shared for informational and storytelling purposes only. It should not be treated as medical, psychological, or professional advice under any circumstances. If you have concerns about your health or well-being, please seek guidance from a doctor, therapist,...

This week we're revisiting our conversation with Jackie Hall, first released as Episode 13. Since we recorded this conversation, Jackie has made her programs available free of charge. That includes a nine week autism parenting program, and Inside Autism, a 16 video neuroaffirming training series for teachers, educators, allied health professionals, support workers, counsellors and others supporting Autistic children and young people. Links are in the resources below.
Jackie Hall is a counsellor, author and the founder of the Parental Stress Centre. In this episode, she and host Leisa Reichelt talk about why so much of the stress we carry as School Can't parents comes from the gap between how we believe life should be going and what is really happening in front of us.
Jackie walks through the four "stressful thinking lenses" that keep us stuck: right versus wrong, missing out, could have/should have, and the core belief underneath them all, "what does this mean about me?" She explains how these lenses narrow our view, make it harder to be curious about what is going on for our young people, and stop us seeing options we had ruled out.
When Leisa pushes back with the realities many families face: jobs, mortgages, isolation, judgement from others, and young people in deep burnout, Jackie responds with practical starting points, including why small, easy ways to feel better are sometimes the only workable way in, and why "hard doesn't mean wrong".
They also discuss regret over decisions made earlier in the journey, the grief of letting go of the family life or career you expected, and what it takes to change long-held beliefs about school and success. This is not a bubble baths version of self-care. It is hard work, and Jackie is upfront about that.
Resources
Parental Stress Centre: www.parentalstresscentre.com
Episode 42: Tanya Valentin on School Can't Parental Grief and Transformation: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2447546/episodes/18277710
Send us Fan Mail
Support the show
School Can’t Australia Facebook Community - https://www.facebook.com/groups/schoolphobiaschoolrefusalaustralia
If this podcast or the School Can’t Australia community has helped you, please consider making a donation or volunteering to help. Find out more here: https://www.schoolcantaustralia.com.au/get-involved#donate

If this episode helped you please take a moment to subscribe, rate, or review the podcast on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. It genuinely helps other School Can't families find us.
If you are a parent of carer in Australia and experiencing distress, please call Lifeline on 13 11 14 or contact the Parent Help Line. - https://kidshelpline.com.au/parents/issues/how-parentline-can-help-you
You can contact us to volunteer to share your School Can't story or some feedback via email on schoolcantpodcast@gmail.com
Disclaimer
The content of this podcast is based on personal lived experiences and is shared for informational and storytelling purposes only. It should not be treated as medical, psychological, or professional advice under any circumstances. If you have concerns about your health or well-being, please seek guidance from a doctor, therapist,...

We're taking a short break over the school holidays, so this week we're revisiting one of our most special episodes from the archive, the first time we've ever had a parent and their young person on the podcast together.
Simone and Yani joined us to share their long journey with School Can't, telling the same story from two very different vantage points. What makes this episode unlike almost anything else we've published is the chance to hear directly from Yani - now a teenager attending TAFE -  about what the experience actually felt like from the inside.
Yani is candid, thoughtful, and has a lot to say. They talk about what made small schools feel safe and large ones feel overwhelming, what it was like to know that dragging a child into school is a kind of violence even when the adults don't see it that way, and what it meant to have a parent who, on one memorable occasion, just said, "stuff it, we're going to the beach." They also describe finally finding education that works at TAFE, where being treated like an adult made all the difference.
Simone speaks honestly about the impossible logistics of managing a demanding job alongside a child who couldn't always get out of the car, about being told by her co-parent that the problem was something she was doing wrong, and about the long process of trusting her own instincts over the noise of what she was supposed to do.
If you're a parent who has felt like you were failing, or who has wondered what your young person is actually experiencing on the inside, this episode is worth your time.
Send us Fan Mail
Support the show
School Can’t Australia Facebook Community - https://www.facebook.com/groups/schoolphobiaschoolrefusalaustralia
If this podcast or the School Can’t Australia community has helped you, please consider making a donation or volunteering to help. Find out more here: https://www.schoolcantaustralia.com.au/get-involved#donate

If this episode helped you please take a moment to subscribe, rate, or review the podcast on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. It genuinely helps other School Can't families find us.
If you are a parent of carer in Australia and experiencing distress, please call Lifeline on 13 11 14 or contact the Parent Help Line. - https://kidshelpline.com.au/parents/issues/how-parentline-can-help-you
You can contact us to volunteer to share your School Can't story or some feedback via email on schoolcantpodcast@gmail.com
Disclaimer
The content of this podcast is based on personal lived experiences and is shared for informational and storytelling purposes only. It should not be treated as medical, psychological, or professional advice under any circumstances. If you have concerns about your health or well-being, please seek guidance from a doctor, therapist,...