The Words Matter Podcast with Oliver Thomson

• Ask Me Anything #6

  Welcome to another episode of The Words Matters Podcast. Many of you may be familiar with a recent paper I was proud to co-author titled: Avoiding nocebo and other undesirable effects in chiropractic, osteopathy and physiotherapy: An invitation to reflect – Journal of MSK Science and Practice.We are very keen to engage the readership in this topic and are inviting readers and listeners of the podcast to critically reflect on the paper and submit questions and comments for a future podcast discussion. Your comments, questions can be submitted via the link here.  On this Ask Me Anything I give my thoughts on the following questions:How to teach BPS model & clinical reasoning in academic settings?Should MSK practitioners do a degree in psychology?  How do you organise your evaluation & treatment within/between sessions?What do you wish knew when you started/you best advice to students?What are the best and worst papers you've read? (spoiler here and here are two of my favourites)Do you crack people’s necks? How do you balance views as a constructionist/relativist stance with objectively implausible claims?What are your thoughts on reassurance and the recent discussion on Twitter? (here) Support the podcast and contribute via Patreon hereIf you liked the podcast, you'll love The Words Matter online course and mentoring to develop your clinical expertise  - ideal for all MSK therapists.Follow Words Matter on:Instagram @Wordsmatter_education @TheWordsMatterPodcastTwitter @WordsClinicalFacebook Words Matter - Improving Clinical Communication   ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

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• The Outsiders - Clinicians divorced from their profession with Eliud Sierra

  Welcome to another episode of The Words Matter Podcast.Apologies for the slight delay in the episode, work and life events continue to get in the way of my passion for producing these conversations.So it’s time for another Outsider episode (see prior Outsider episodes here, here, here and here), where I talk with clinicians that feel divorced from their profession and don’t identify with their professional label and the professionally assumed meaning of that label.And on this episode I’m speaking with Eliud Sierra. Eliud is an evidence-based chiropractor who specialises in physical rehabilitation and chronic pain management through strength and conditioning focused treatments. Many of you may be familiar with him via Instagram, with his handle The_Rehab_Chiro – which amongst sharing evidence informed messaging also provides his critical and often humorous thoughts on chiropractic.Eliud works in the U.S. within in a private clinic located in the city of Chicago . As an undergraduate student, Eliud attended the University of Iowa where we worked in the physical therapy department of the medical college, aiding in research regarding spinal cord injury patients.After the University of Iowa, Eliud went on to attend Palmer College of Chiropractic where he got his doctor of chiropractic degree and founded the school’s first evidence-based club. In his professional career, Eliud has worked with a wide array of individuals ranging from elite athletes to post-surgical patients. So it was great to speak with Eliud, as you will hear we share a common experience of leaving via choice or through force a Facebook group of our respective professions and it fun to exchange the reasons and context around that.Support the podcast and contribute via Patreon hereIf you liked the podcast, you'll love The Words Matter online course and mentoring to develop your clinical expertise  - ideal for all MSK therapists.Follow Words Matter on:Instagram @Wordsmatter_education @TheWordsMatterPodcastTwitter @WordsClinicalFacebook Words Matter - Improving Clinical Communication ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

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  59:57
• Sociology for practice - the 'ology' you’ve been looking for with Dr Rebecca Olson

  Welcome to another episode of The Words Matter Podcast.I hope you’ve enjoyed the last couple of episodes exploring pseudoscientific claims and how to think about, and respond to them (here and here). And to give us all a break from the frustration, today I’m speaking with Dr Rebecca Olson about the role and value of sociology for practice.Rebecca is an Associate Professor of Sociology, and Program Director of the Bachelor of Social Science at the University of Queensland. She’s Director of SocioHealthLab: a research collective that pursues social transformation in health and healthcare through theory- and justice-led applied socio-cultural research.As a translational qualitative researcher, Rebecca  collaborates with health professionals, health professional educators and emotions scholars, bringing sociological insight to addressing complex healthcare challenges.And Rebecca follows in the growing line of guests based at UQ including Karime Mescouto (Episode 39: Where’s does the power lie? A critical look at the biopsychosocial model), Jenny Setchell (Episode 50: The Qualitative Research Series - What’s left in the ruins? Post qualitative research) and more recently Nathalia Costa (Episode 68: The Clinical Reasoning Series – Navigating uncertainty).So on this episode we speak about:The distinction between sociology and social science, and where sociology sits in the landscape of intellectual enquiry.Rebecca introduces sociology as a research field and how she (and others) have engaged with it in relation to healthcare.We talk about medical sociology and the development of related methodologies such as grounded theory (see here and here) and ethnographic research (see episode 45 for more ethnography).The importance and value of sociological theory for practice – and we talk about how there is nothing like a good theory to offer a rich perspective and multiple lenses on clinical practice.And we also talk about what social theories are and where they come from.We distinguish between the natural world and the social world.We talk about the irony that while social factors and determinants of health seem to be important in understanding and predicting illness and recovery, yet sociological knowledge is does not feature strongly in healthcare education and practice.And finally we talk about what can we learn from sociological enquiry and how it can inform practice and policy.So I really loved this conversation with Rebecca. As clinicians we seem to be very happy and comfortable with the other ‘ologies’ – such as biology, physiology and neurology so I hope that this conversation is a gateway to explore how sociology can support and guide clinical thinking and practice.Find Rebecca on Twitter @RebeccaEOlsonSupport the podcast and contribute via Patreon hereIf you liked the podcast, you'll love The Words Matter online course and mentoring to develop your clinical expertise  - ideal for all MSK therapists.Follow Words Matter on:Instagram @Wordsmatter_education @TheWordsMatterPodcastTwitter @WordsClinicalFacebook Words Matter - Improving Clinical Communication ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

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  57:59
• Pretending to be true - getting to the heart of pseudoscience with Dr Carlo Martini

  Welcome to another episode of The Words Matter Podcast.It seems like the last episode with Dave Newell and Jack Chew was necessary; the feedback by and large was supportive, but clearly you cannot please everyone and for some people there is no argument, reason or evidence (let alone a podcast) that will ever initiate a reflection or reconsideration of their position and beliefs. So as promised, I’ve continued to explore these issues and today I’m speaking with Dr Carlo Martini about pseudoscience and pseudoscientific claims.Carlo is an Associate Professor in Philosophy of Science at Vita-Salute San Raffaele University (Milan) and visiting fellow at the Center for Philosophy of Social Science at the University of Helsinki.He has worked on the interface between science and policy, scientific expertise, and science communication. Carlo leads the work package "Behavioral Tools for Building Trust" in the H2020 Project "Policy, Expertise and Trust"I spoke with Carlo last year in a two-part episode on expertise and experts; and many of the topics around pseudoscience that we discuss today have overlap with expertise and how we recognize and come to trust an expert – so it would be well worth listening or re-listening to those conversations which are episodes 53 and 54. So on this episode we talk about:The value-ladeness of the term ‘scientific’ and how the label can add value to a treatment, practice or person.We speak about the equalising effect the label ‘pseudoscience’ and how this seeks to remove any underserved benefit or misusing the label of ‘scientific’.We speak about the motives, incentives and intentions of those that might make or perpetuate pseudoscientific claims.We speak about how some practices and professions seem more susceptible than others to be informed by pseudoscience; but that pseudoscience can be found in across all disciplines from homeopathy, osteopathy, nutrition, medicine and even physics.We speak about the importance of peer-review and the openness of scientific community.And finally, we speak about the ethics and harms of pseudoscience and pseudoscientific claims.So this was another great conversation with Carlo; his outsider position affords him a more dispassionate view of healthcare and his philosophical and sociological perspectives on pseudoscience was incredibly insightful.Find Carlo on Twitter @martinicarloSupport the podcast and contribute via Patreon hereIf you liked the podcast, you'll love The Words Matter online course and mentoring to develop your clinical expertise  - ideal for all MSK therapists.Follow Words Matter on:Instagram @Wordsmatter_education @TheWordsMatterPodcastTwitter @WordsClinicalFacebook Words Matter - Improving Clinical Communication  ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

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  1:19:04
• Truth and plausibility - How should we engage with nonsensical claims made by colleagues? With Jack Chew and Prof. Dave Newell

  Welcome to another episode of The Words Matter Podcast.So it’s been a pretty action packed few weeks on social media; for those of you that have not been following there was a storm in a pericardial tea cup - for my thoughts on the saga visit my Instagram bio where there's an Instagram live video.It was a rather unique experience, so the researcher in me wants to describe the situation, understand the antecedent conditions and get some purchase on the underlying beliefs and intentions when colleagues make implausible and sometimes bizarre claims and also reflect on our reaction to them and perhaps how we can engineer a more productive response.As such, I’m going to follow this trail and in addition to this episode there are episodes planned with Carlo Martini (see our previous episodes on expertise and trust here and here) examining the phenomenon of pseudoscience; and also more Outsider episodes where guests relay their own experiences and outcomes of engaging with colleagues who hold such implausible beliefs and make such poorly evidenced claims which can only seem to map to the most distorted view of a biological reality.So I’m on a bit of a quest for the next few episodes at least to try understand how to approach (small t) truth claims which are used to describe what seems like an objective biological reality but come from seemingly completely different epistemologies and play by a different set of rules than that of biological reality.How can we talk with colleagues that seem to hold significant differences in foundational aspects of healthcare and what it is to be a health professional such as the nature of evidence, logic, ethics and intellectually honest argumentation?Just to declare and reflect on my own position; I am not a walking-talking positivist or strident empiricist; far from it - I most certainly do consider and embrace the plurality of truths which comes from the social construction of knowledge…as it relates to the social world; but for me I cannot see how a sense of relativism can extend to the natural world or the biology reality which brutally confronts us every second of our lives- whether we like it or not; literally with every breath we take and every time our left ventricle contracts.I may be guilty here of epistemological blurring or straddling different paradigms - but clearly as with many of us, my position is evolving and it’s only through more critical self-reflection and more conversations that I might be able to iron out any wrinkles in my position or even change it completely.So please subscribe to the podcast and consider supporting the show via Patreon; and as always a big thank you to those of you already doing one or both of those things.So in this episode I’m speaking with Jack Chew and Prof. Dave Newell. Jack is an MSK Physio and broadcaster from the North of England and was the mind behind the phenomenal Physio Matters Podcast which was a huge inspiration for The Words Matter Podcast. He also leads the incredibly successful pan-professional MSK conference Therapy Live; as well as being  the director of MSK Reform. Jack keeps his hand in clinically at Chews Health HQ in South Manchester. And he’s recently been elected as a council member for the Chartered Society of Physiotherapy.Dave holds positions of Professor of Integrated Musculoskeletal Healthcare and Director of Research at AECC University College also well Visiting Research Fellow at Faculty of Medicine, University of Southampton. He has spent the last 30 years teaching and generating research in chiropractic institutions internationally, holding the position of Research Director in two other chiropractic programs in the UK and Australia.Dave has published extensively in areas relevant to musculoskeletal conditions in general and the chiropractic profession in particular. His contemporary areas of research interest lie in contextual factors in the therapeutic encounter, therapeutic alliance and the alignment of chiropractic profession with national health systems. Like Jack, Dave is a podcaster and is one of the hosts of icarechirocast, an international podcast discussion with leaders in the chiropractic profession. Dave and I spoke way back in August 2020 on episode 15 where we touched on the dogma and ideology which permeates through corners of our respective professions - so take a listen for further context around the topic. Another relevant episode is my recent talk with the philosophers of science Dr Elena Rocca and Dr Saúl Pérez-González about biological mechanisms and how we can judge the plausibility of such mechanistic claims - this was  episode 69 from March this yearSo in this episode we speak about:The growing phenomenon of calling out the falsehoods make by professional colleagues on social media. We ask if this is effective and whether there's an obligation to do this and with whom does the obligation lie?We talk about what constitutes a nonsense claim and the gradations of bizarreness and implausibility.We ask what is the most productive way to respond to such seemingly ludicrous claims?We talk about to what extent can healthcare professionals hold and perpetuate such beliefs and the ethics and harms in holding or espousing such implausible beliefs.We discuss how some practitioners seem to embody and fall in love their such ideas; and the situation where some clinicians are unable or not prepared to separate their ideas from their professional selves and identity; making it almost impossible to 'play the ball and not the person'.So this was such an enjoyable conversation; and only time will tell as to whether we achieved our mission of at least beginning to make sense of some of the truths and their plausibility in healthcare – I’m grateful to Jack and Dave for sharing their own valuable insights.Find Jack @JackAChew and Dave @NewellDave on Twitter Support the podcast and contribute via Patreon hereIf you liked the podcast, you'll love The Words Matter online course and mentoring to develop your clinical expertise  - ideal for all MSK therapists.Follow Words Matter on:Instagram

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  1:21:03

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