No More Boring Learning by Brain Bakery

Stop Talking to the Rider
Julie Dirksen on behavior change, the elephant in the room, and why knowing is never enough
From Jeanne
If you have ever stood in front of a group, delivered a session you were genuinely proud of, and then watched nothing change two weeks later — this episode is for you. That is exactly what happened to me early in my career. I ran a two-hour training that had people practically running out the door to sell a new product. Two weeks later: zero. Turns out nobody got a bonus for selling it. I had never even thought to ask that question.
Julie Dirksen has spent more than many years asking exactly that question. She is the author of Design for How People Learn, an industry classic, and Talk to the Elephant, which picks up precisely where the first book left off: what do you do when people know what to do, and they are still not doing it? I have distributed that book widely. It is that good.
We recorded this conversation in English, and I am so glad we did. Julie is sharp, warm, and she has a way of making behavioral science feel immediately useful. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
About Julie Dirksen 
Julie Dirksen holds a master’s degree in Instructional Systems Technology from Indiana University. She has spent decades helping organizations design learning that actually changes behavior, and has been recognized as a Guild Master by the e-Learning Guild. Her books are considered essential reading in the field of learning and development.
What this episode covers 
 The question Julie could not stop thinking about after her first book: what happens when people know what to do, but they are still not doing it?
The Elephant and Rider metaphor, originally from Jonathan Haidt, and why most learning experiences only talk to the Rider while the Elephant gets bored and checks Instagram. 
The two factors Julie has never seen absent in a challenging behavior change problem: competing priorities and delayed or absent feedback. 
The change ladder: a practical framework for diagnosing where people actually are before jumping to solutions. From not knowing, to knowing but not convinced, to convinced but stuck, to needing practical support, to building and maintaining a habit. 
Why adding more information louder and more emphatically is almost never the answer. 
How to redirect the conversation when colleagues or clients start blaming learners for not learning. 
Action planning versus positive visualization: why picturing yourself being successful is far less effective than thinking through everything that might stop you.
AI and defaults: why people are much better at generating content than at critically checking it, and what that means for how we use these tools. 
A preview of Julie’s new book, Designed for How People Build Skills, out in the fall.
Julie’s two things to do tomorrow 
Ask what everything in the system is currently doing to either promote or prevent the behavior you want. How many of those things can training actually address?
Look at the feedback mechanisms. What feedback are people getting on the behavior right now? How can you improve it?
Books mentioned
Talk to the Elephant — Julie Dirksen
Design for How People Learn — Julie Dirksen
The Happiness Hypothesis — Jonathan Haidt
Thinking, Fast and Slow — Daniel Kahneman 
Find Julie Dirksen at julieDirksen.com and on LinkedIn. Listen to the full episode via No More Boring Learning.

Dr. Clark Quinn on 40 Years of Learning Science
In this episode, I talk with Dr. Clark Quinn, one of the most influential thinkers in our field. With over 40 years of experience in learning science, seven books to his name, and as the first recipient of the eLearning Guild's Guild Master Award, Clark shares his sharp insights on what's going wrong in L&D and how we can do better.
In this episode we discuss:
Why we jump to solutions too quickly without first considering what technology can actually offer
The danger of "chocolate covered broccoli" in learning experience design
Why there's only a 0.09 correlation between whether people like a training and whether it actually has impact
The persistent misconceptions that just won't die: learning styles, the attention span of a goldfish, and the myth that images are 10,000 times better than text
Generative AI: why it creates answers that sound like good answers, but aren't necessarily
Why you don't just need a human in the loop, but an expert in the loop
About Dr. Clark Quinn: Clark Quinn has a PhD in cognitive psychology and was a pioneer in designing educational games. He co-authored the Serious eLearning Manifesto and wrote, among others, "Millennials, Goldfish, and Other Training Misconceptions."
Mentioned in this episode:
Millennials, Goldfish, and Other Training Misconceptions (Clark Quinn)
Make It Meaningful (Clark Quinn)
Learning Science for Instructional Designers (Clark Quinn)
Think Like a Marketer, Train Like an L&D Pro (Bianca Bauman & Mike Taylor)
The Accidental Instructional Designer (Cammy Bean)

In this podcast, Jeanne and Dr. Britt Andreatta take you into the world of neuroscience and how it transforms our understanding of learning and leadership. They discuss how our brains get bored quickly and emphasize the importance of short, interactive learning blocks. Meaning-making is crucial; participants need to see how the skills they learn practically help them. Making mistakes is allowed, provided there is psychological safety, so teams can grow and learn from their experiences. With her insights, Britt shows how we can make learning irresistible and create meaningful experiences.

Connect with Britt via LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/brittandreatta
https://www.brittandreatta.com
https://brainawaretraining.com
Check the blog about this podcast:
https://www.brainbakery.com/brainsnacks-en/wired-to-grow-how-neuroscience-changes-the-way-we-learn-and-lead-with-dr-britt-andreatta
Still hungry?
Nom nom… have a nibble on our Brain Snacks
https://www.brainbakery.com/brainsnacks

In this episode of "No More Boring Learning," hosts Ravi and Jeanne delve into the fascinating world of cognitive dissonance. As they unpack this psychological phenomenon, they explore how our brains handle conflicting beliefs and the challenges it presents in personal growth and leadership. They explain how cognitive dissonance can prevent change, using everyday examples and insights into human behavior to illustrate the point. This discussion is particularly invaluable for anyone in leadership or training roles, offering strategies to navigate and address cognitive dissonance effectively. 

Tune in to gain a deeper understanding of why we resist change and how to foster more productive and insightful learning environments.
Whether you're an educator, a lifelong learner, or simply curious about  human behaviour, this episode promises to expand your horizons and ignite your passion for personal development.

Check the blog about this podcast:
https://www.brainbakery.com/brainsnacks-en/wrestling-with-your-brain-understanding-cognitive-dissonance-in-leadership-and-learning

Still hungry?
Nom nom… have a nibble on our Brain Snacks
https://www.brainbakery.com/brainsnacks

Imagine if every piece of advice you've ever received came with a "best before" date or a truthfulness rating. 🌟 From the gems that push you to greatness to the ones that make you wonder if you're secretly being pranked, navigating advice can feel like trying to find a needle in a haystack... while blindfolded.
The Avalanche of Unsolicited Wisdom
Ever felt bombarded by advice from all corners, including from people you're pretty sure don't even know your last name? It's like everyone's suddenly an expert on your life, career, and whether you should be drinking oat milk or almond milk for optimum health.

The Three Crucial Questions to Ask Yourself
Before taking any advice to heart, consider: Does this person genuinely care about me, or are they just enjoying the sound of their own wisdom? Do they actually have expertise in what they're advising on, or did they just watch a documentary last night? And crucially, do they understand my situation, or are they giving me advice meant for a reality TV show contestant?

Check the blog about this podcast:
https://www.brainbakery.com/brainsnacks-en/advice-feedback-critics-coaches-or-cheerleaders-whos-really-helping-you-grow

Still hungry?
Nom nom… have a nibble on our Brain Snacks
https://www.brainbakery.com/brainsnacks